The Orion Nebula

Free Orion is a fan made game that is in development and looks to be quite good to me. A basic beta virsion is avalable and has multiplayer support already. Sadly there is no computer AI at all right now so it is only fun to see what the game is going to be like if you don't have someone to do multiplayer with.
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Main_Page
P.S. I am not in anyway part of the Free Orion project I just think it is cool and want to see what you guys think.

I think it's a good thing, myself.

Most of the complaints I've heard are simply a matter of people not liking some of the specific game design choices they are making. This is to be expected, because everyone has their opinion of what the "perfect" 4x game should look like.

A few people complain about the fact that they don't necessarily make their decisions 100% democratically, however I am all for the existence of "leadership team", because a democratic process is not always the best way to make decisions in situations like this.

Bring it on, I look forward to the finished product. My only misgiving is that they aren't moving as fast as I'd like to see, but these people are doing this on the side in their free time (outside their "normal" jobs, lives, families, etc.), so I have to cut them a lot of slack there...I've written a completed computer game 12 years ago, and have a good idea how complex it can get, and my project had NOWHERE near the depth of what they are tackling.

I haven't tried the recently released beta version yet.

-Gusset

Game looks fine.

I´ll take a closer look, on version 1.0 !

I have heard of it. I doubt it will be any good.

Most of the complaints I've heard are simply a matter of people not liking some of the specific game design choices they are making. This is to be expected, because everyone has their opinion of what the "perfect" 4x game should look like.

True. And here is my reason why I (and I heard also many other moo2 fans) lost interest:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.p ... ost3377016

I think there are now only a few moo2 fans in this project involved. At least my impression when I posted there a few days ago:

http://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1254

Even the lead designer about moo2 combat system:

http://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1168

I think that if you don't accept that you need to inherently weight some types of units against others, then there is really only one unit type and it's just a question of who can cram more guns onto that one unit type. This is what MOO2 does, and I don't think regurgitating MOO2's combat engine is really a valid choice unless we accept that it's impossible to create a real strategic sim in this manner and that the mission of the combat engine is simply to create a gigantic mud pit to sling everything you've got at the other guy.

That's frustrating. I guess they have never ever played a MP game.

Well I think that you are correct that it is wrong to pool all the PP (Production Points) like they seem to be planning. However I don't think the idea is completely wrong.
At the simplest level you defineitly should be able to pool all the planets in a system for larger projects. It gives a very reasonable advantage to systems with more worlds.

For a more complacated idea I think that for very large projects Production should be able to be pooled from different systems. However I think that doing so should have negitives attached so that it is only pratical for the most huge projects.
For example have a time delay between when you choose to pool the production and when the other worlds start to have their additions to the work get transproted to the center of production. Also have a loss in amount of production to pay for transport and other logistics costs.
Production should also only be allowed to be shared between "linked" systems. That is ones that have a safe trade route most likely with outposts or colonys being required along the way.

I admit I didn't understand what you were saying about combat but I also haven't looked at that message board yet.

You shouldn't be too critical about the game because it is open sourse and so if you don't like it you can get a group togather to change it to fit your liking.

(P.S. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear with all that above I haven't been known as a good writer in the past.)

I'd be surprised if there are any acomplished MP MOO2 players on the core FO team. I wish there were, but I don't have time to dive in to the extent that I'd like to. I also have to admit that as a die-hard MOO2er, I may not be open-minded enough to qualify, anyway...there's a chance that I'd try to steer all the design decisions in a direction I am comfortable with, and if that happened we'd end up with MOO2 with different graphics perhaps and only one government type...

In my limited time surfing their forums, they seem to be having some fairly complete discussions that incorporate experience with a lot of different games, sometimes including board-style games IIRC. They don't appear to be making any quick, uninformed decisions. Most of what I've heard has had what I consider to be good reasons.

Perhaps the biggest example that gets under people's skins is starlanes...there are a lot of people who are pretty upset about using starlanes. The design team's attitude, though, has been that they'd prefer to avoid them, also, but there's no good way to program an AI that can pose a challenge in an open map such as MOO2 (using their limited time resources). Starlanes will make an AI more formidable against a human, and they want the game to be 100% playable in both single and multi-player modes. While I don't like starlanes, I have to agree that their reasons for using them are valid. Then again, I don't have much experience in starlane games to begin wtih, so perhaps I'm just ignorant on this one and it may actually be good.

I'm not trying to discuss specifics of the game here with this example. All I'm saying is that the people involved in the game's development appear to be making an honest effort to be complete in how they are thinking through and making their design choices. That's all I can ask., so I'll wait to see how it turns out before I second guess their design decisions.

-Gusset

At the simplest level you defineitly should be able to pool all the planets in a system for larger projects. It gives a very reasonable advantage to systems with more worlds.

For a more complacated idea I think that for very large projects Production should be able to be pooled from different systems. However I think that doing so should have negitives attached so that it is only pratical for the most huge projects.

Well, I agree. But that’s what we have in Moo2. You have the option of interstellar PP transfer by using money. And since the transfer ration isn’t 1-1 there are negatives involved.

I admit I didn't understand what you were saying about combat but I also haven't looked at that message board yet.

I think that almost the complete opposite is true when you analyze the moo2 combat system (excluding the poor AI). His comment is a really silly moo2 bash.

You shouldn't be too critical about the game because it is open sourse and so if you don't like it you can get a group togather to change it to fit your liking.

I can also simply stay with moo2 1.4 patch. LordBrazen’s work has a lot of more potential. And since I played moo1 and moo2 a lot. And since I loved both games.....and they call their game Free Orion....I think it is ok to be critical. IMO the name Free Orion is simply misleading.

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I'd be surprised if there are any acomplished MP MOO2 players on the core FO team.

I'd be surprised if there are any accomplished MOO2 players on the core FO team.
I'd be surprised if there are any accomplished MP players (of any 4X TBS) on the core FO team.

While I don't like starlanes, I have to agree that their reasons for using them are valid.

I think you can also just reduce the long range fuel cells with a similar effect.

All I'm saying is that the people involved in the game's development appear to be making an honest effort to be complete in how they are thinking through and making their design choices.

No one doubts this. The sad thing is that most of them think that moo2 almost completely sucks. And they even start to oversimplify the moo1-style economic system. (And that’s already decided AFAIK.)

Free Orion is completely dead ! Perhabs it was good way to talking about "like MOO" game, but nothing more ... There is one general problem - ... players is not a game designers, they are cant make games !
Game was successfull only if talent designer create it ! Talent !!!
Cid Mayers games is great ... Van Canagham - Kb,Heroes ...
but guys - you are NOT a expirienced in that field - so impossible to create good game with yours minds ... (sorry for offence)
Why MOO2 considered as one of the best game ?
Because its simple, you may just start playing, you dont need any help.
After 30 min of gameplay - EVERY player understand is that game good or not. Try play MOO3 and after 30 min, you will want only one, never more see that game. Also I may say and about Free Orion.
Now every game using directx, shaders, ... but is MOO2 graphics supreme ? Playing MOO2 you play with "toys". You look on workers, scientists,farmers in planets, and they are as a little "toys"
And it is right way - game must allow me play with "toys". Dont see anything Free Orion. Game absolutely - dead. Instead FO allow me play with "scroll-bars" ?!?

players is not a game designers, they are cant make games !

They 'just' would need to copy the gameplay of moo2. But this alone is hard enuff I guess ... !