Good Race Picks

[Dustin]

I was thinking about making a good production race like the Meklar, but then to cusomize it and make them better.

Instead of:
Production (+6)
Cybernetic (+4)

Get:
Unification (+6)
Production (+3)
Farming (-3)
Cybernetic (+4)


And then you can still get -7/+7 with anything else you want, any suggestions??

I was thinking if in a 1vs1 game to get Repulsive (-6) and then get +6 picks with whatever else.
However, in a computer game, a game with computer AI, to get Low-G (-5) and then Ground Combat (-2) with +7 picks whatever else.
Is this a good idea?

[Cabman]

The best production races are: uni tolerant +1 prod large hw repulsive -20 defence - 10 ground combat and uni aqua =2prod. large rich hw (negative picks like above)
you should read that guide http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005 ... 5037872720
it will help you

[Dustin]

What makes Tolerant and Aquatic worth so much for a production race?

Population max and pollution control does have an impact on production, but wouldnt it be more economical to pick other picks at this point in the begininng of the game because pollution (tolerant) isnt extremely high and when it gets to that point there is technology to help it and with population maximum bonuses (aquatic), it takes time to grow your colony to that point.

How does this production race compare to the other ones listed in theory?
Is Cybernetics a good pick instead of Aquatic here? [think Meklar]
Unification (+6)
Cybernetic (+4)
Production (+6)
Rich Home World (+2)
Large Home World (+1)
with (-9/10) picks of your choice

[Cabman]

Heh. Dustin i have a proposition : let's meet on Kali and play MOO. U'll see the advantage of the races i've mentioned . Regards

[siron]

Hi Dustin.

It seems you like cybernetic.

The prod penalty of this pick really hurts in MP. It is very rarely chosen...it is more a fun pick. Some players like to experiment with:

uni tol cyber

and

dict tol 2prod cyber (actually quite strong in uni lith ban games)

It seems you really underestimate 1pop housing. 1 worker on a planet with autofacts generates more than 200k pop per turn. Planets are full very fast. Therefore this passage from the above-mentioned strat guide is absolutely mainstream on kali:

Population Capacity Modifier. Population is the ultimate arbiter of victory in MOO. A race without the ability to generate a large population will almost always lose the population competition, and shortly thereafter the game. It is essential that your race picks include at least one of the following pop capacity modifiers: Aquatic, Subterranean, Tolerant. Each of these picks increases the number of colonists that a planet can hold. Lithovore is also a viable pick: it does not increase the number of colonists a planet can hold, but by eliminating farmers, it does give you more usable population.

Your race has quite good prod at start but you must be VERY VERY lucky so that you find several arids, terrans and gaias in your neighborhood. Otherwise you have no place for your pop.

[dirt-bag]

tolerant and aquatic both increase the planet sizes which is vital past turn 60 or so, when the planets start filling up.

the advantage of aquatic is that all terrans and oceans are 'gaia' as well, this allows for an increase in tech capabilities. either uni tol prod or uni aqua prod are quite effective. for the longest time my favorite race was uni aqua +2 prod large rich HW (with repulsive -grnd and -ship defense).

as for uni tol +1 prod...i play this race once a year. it is insanely powerful when played well.

repulsive is an automatic pick for most players.

the key to rapid expansion is 1 pop housing. production races excell at 1 pop housing. what is 1 pop housing? well drop by kali we can show u the ropes...

[Gusset]

Population max and pollution control does have an impact on production, but wouldnt it be more economical to pick other picks at this point in the begininng of the game because pollution (tolerant) isnt extremely high and when it gets to that point there is technology to help it and with population maximum bonuses (aquatic), it takes time to grow your colony to that point.

Hi Dustin, welcome to the forum.

Here's a little bit of detail to chew on about why tolerant's value is so high.

In the beginning of the game, with any race at all, your fist goal should be to build colony bases on at least 2 of your home system planets. (Side note: with some tech races it's worthwhile to research autofactories first to get it done faster.)

Let's look at uni/+1 production. On turn 1, this race needs 3 farmers. The remaining 5 colonists generate 30 production points, with 12 lost to pollution. It takes 12 turns to build a colony base at this level.

Now, let's look at uni/+1 prod/tolerant. This race gets to use all 30 of its production because it loses nothing to pollution, and will get the same colony base built in 7 turns.

By the time 2 colony bases are built, the tolerant race has taken 9 or 10 fewer turns to do this. That's a lot. The same things apply when it's time to build colony ships, which is also something that should be done as early as possible. Pollution processor or atmospheric renewer tech come pretty late. Tolerant comes right away.

There are plenty of very good game strategies to play that don't require tolerant as a pick, and it's not required to succeed (I personally have played tolerant races on Kali a grand total of 2 times). All I'm trying to do here is explain why tolerant is perhaps the single most powerful pick, possibly a bargain at 10 picks, especially when you factor in that it ALSO is a population enhancer on most planets.

Aquatic's early impact in a game is more indirect. A uni/aquatic race only needs 2 farmers at the game's start, so that's one more population unit that can be devoted to production. Using the same basis for comparison (first colony base), a uni/aqua/+2 prod/Large-rich HW, using those 6 workers (instead of uni/tol's 5), gets 35 production points, even after pollution. That extra colonist actually makes an impact there.

I'm not advocating either tolerant or aquatic, just trying to express some of the detail behind their value. My current race of choice uses neither of those picks, incidentally. MOO2 has a lot of depth, and value of various picks is not always apparent just on the surface.

-Gusset

[Dustin]

I have a question:
Besides Repulisive being a normal (-) pick to choose, what is the next normal (-) to take?

Is it
Spying (-3)? or
Farming (-3)? or
Money (-4)? or
Ship Defense (-2) and Ground Combat (-2) or
other?

So many good minuses to choose from...

[Lord Brazen]

Is it
Spying (-3)? or
Farming (-3)? or
Money (-4)? or
Ship Defense (-2) and Ground Combat (-2) or
other?

So many good minuses to choose from...

Spying, Ground Combat, Ship defense, LowG, and Repulsive are the most common negative picks. All others are serious handicaps.

[DJ]

What about me I am reccommend play "comfortable" race :
Unification, Aquatic, +1 Prod, +50 Pop, Large HW, Rich HW
Low G World, -10 Spying, -10 Ground Combat

The main difference is (+50 Pop) pick which allow you play comfortable.
You may now dont build Housing and play more economic-agressive.
We are play with AI so (Repulsive) pick not optimal for us.
Another important thing is - large and rich Homeworld, its allow you -
play One Planet strategy, thats when only HW producing/researching, all others colonies make its own bisness ...
If you get early Colony Leader, thats also fit into One Planet strategy, because rich HW doubles* any prod-Leader bonus, large HW affect any research-Leader bonus same way.

[siron]

No doubts. This uni aqua race is quite strong. Seppel plays it quite often. (In MP with repulsive.)

But he likes to expand with this race.

art hw instead of growth is another option. thats often a pure 1 planet strategy. Fantastic results when you find some further food planet.

[yurop]

My favorite:
-Democratic
-subt.
-large hw.
-artifact pl.
-+1 research

[ALEX|D]

-Democratic
-subt.
-large hw.
-artifact pl.
-+1 research

4 on food -> 8 food
2 on prod -> 6 prod
2 on science -> 18 RP

If u would take

demolith arti u´ll get

0 on food -> X
2 on prod -> 6 prod
6 on sci -> 45RP

There r 2 main strategies with demo. U ll attack early with a huge tech lead, or u tech to droids.

[siron]

AlexD is right that demo lith is more powerful.

But I like yurop's race.

Actually I discussed these 2food/farmer tech races a lot with dirtbag recently. DB prefers +growth instead +res IIRC. I prefer yurop's race and tested it a lot....(tried to surprise in average or pre some other tech-freaks)....but it is still missing a small edge (sub kicks in too late).

But difficult to find the optimal path with this race....so many options....

What's your research path at start, yurop?

[yurop]

-Democratic
-subt.
-large hw.
-artifact pl.
-+1 research

4 on food -> 8 food
2 on prod -> 6 prod
2 on science -> 18 RP

If u would take

demolith arti u´ll get

0 on food -> X
2 on prod -> 6 prod
6 on sci -> 45RP

There r 2 main strategies with demo. U ll attack early with a huge tech lead, or u tech to droids.

It's only the begining...soon after the lithovore bonus would lose its advantage. (one worker on prod is enough so 27 RP is it) and it will be very powerfull once you got enough food AND high population (that a lithovore race won't have)