Please teach me some

Discussion on how to play against other humans.
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Hothgadt
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Please teach me some

Postby Hothgadt » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:43 pm

Hi all,

I like to play Moo2 with a group of friends. We're probably weaker than any Kali player, but we have also arrived at UniTol+1Pr or UniAqua+2pr and 1pop-Housing pretty quickly (bunch of science students and competitive go/chess players, so the obvious things did occur to us).

We have now decided to change things up a bit with 1.4 patch, trying to encourage tech races.

The way we usually play now is
/nowh /noerport /richstart /planets=2 /noorion /nosplint /picks=14.

Galaxy is huge, impossible (not sure if that changes anything without AIs), organic-level is "normal", 3 players, pre-warp, no antarrans, no random events.

We ban omniscient, because it slows play.

Now, in these circumstances, what would you chose?

Last game I got away winning with UniTolAquaticProd+1. Presently I try UniAquaProd+2Sci+1ArtiLarge.
While these are incredibly quick to take 20 systems and it's fun to play them, it is not quite what we aimed for...

I think the problem with us might be that we do not really know how to play creative or democratic races properly. Usually when somebody tries, he ends up at turn 140 with about less than 100 pop in 5 systems, hoping to avoid contact with an UniTol, who at this time makes >1000 Science Points per turn with Autolabs alone... :(

I would be grateful if you guys would tell me which kind of 14-pick tech races might be competitive with the uber-producers for this setting... And how to use them properly. :)


Another thing: Reading through the forum I get the feeling that being Aquatic one ought to get Cloning early... None of us ever used these before - what's the idea? Get cloners on the housing planets (really? 100pp on a housing planet are >10 turns, that is 3-5 pop "invested", as in "not built"...) Or on deep planets and make sure to never let them fill up ( I guess we are sloppy there, we like our shipyards full, although it wastes some pop :oops: ) ?
100PP is pretty cheap, true - but 400RP this early in the game... that's like 10-15 turns later super-computers... Also: 200PP buy a colony base which settles a new housing planet, subsequently producing more pop than 2 cloning centers... Please enlighten me :roll:


Best regards and thank you in advance.
Those are my principles!
If you don't like them: I have others!

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:42 am

The way we usually play now is
/nowh /noerport /richstart /planets=2 /noorion /nosplint /picks=14.

It's hard to advise you anything since we use only 10 picks.
Another thing: Reading through the forum I get the feeling that being Aquatic one ought to get Cloning early...
take a look at this movie
http://wap.mypuk.ru/tf8/moo_rep/Cabman_housing.avi
i think it's a good example how cloners are helpful.

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Hothgadt
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Postby Hothgadt » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:09 am

but you sure must have some ideas on how you'd want to spend the 4 extra picks? (pleeeease :wink:)

and: wow, thank you for that video. You are so good. Just watching this while having a coffee already shows me how unattentive I play. Minimizing pollution all the time and shifting farmers around so you need less freighters... Impressive! I see I have much to learn :)
Those are my principles!

If you don't like them: I have others!

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Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:02 pm

As far as the tech race pick goes, for the regular game, DemoLith can be viable. You have to time your first BB just right so that you are attacking before the production races start to take off.

What I see most tech players do is to quickly tech to auto-fire lasers, build a BB and some transports then go on the offensive. Ideally, you catch them just before they get to planetary super computers/robot-miners. Without wormholes, on a large map, it can be tricky to pull off. When it works, it works beautifully, but it often fails.

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Hothgadt
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Postby Hothgadt » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:10 am

Without wormholes, on a large map, it can be tricky to pull off

so actually huge prewarp /nowh maps favor production again? We had hoped that setting the game up in a way that delays action until turn 130-150 would make creative more worthwile... :(
Those are my principles!

If you don't like them: I have others!

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Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:04 am

Hothgadt wrote:
Without wormholes, on a large map, it can be tricky to pull off

so actually huge prewarp /nowh maps favor production again? We had hoped that setting the game up in a way that delays action until turn 130-150 would make creative more worthwile... :(


You can play a creative/production race on huge maps. That might be one case where the creative race pick could be viable. Creative often gets nailed before it has a chance to take off in both tech and production.

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:49 am

The way we usually play now is
/nowh /noerport /richstart /planets=2 /noorion /nosplint /picks=14.

Try uni sub lith rich hw...not aviable with 10 standard picks..should be really fast and it has excellent pop capacity pick.
You can check if demo sub lith large hw works as a tech race.
About creative...well i personally don't like that pick and gladly see it being removed from the racepick screen (it's so uncreative playing creative :P ).
I don't like "stick in the corner hoping no one finds you long enough" games. On average (not pre), regular 1.40 games only uni sub creative has slight chances. On pre...without aditional cship and with just two planets in hw the chances are none. Even when you spend 4 extra pick (+food or large rich hw or prod/res) i doubt if it help much.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:16 am

...Last game I got away winning with UniTolAquaticProd+1. Presently I try UniAquaProd+2Sci+1ArtiLarge.
While these are incredibly quick to take 20 systems and it's fun to play them, it is not quite what we aimed for...

I think the problem with us might be that we do not really know how to play creative or democratic races properly. Usually when somebody tries, he ends up at turn 140 with about less than 100 pop in 5 systems, hoping to avoid contact with an UniTol, who at this time makes >1000 Science Points per turn with Autolabs alone... Sad

LOL. Unitolprod is overpower alone, if you add aquatic it will be megapower :lol:
No surprise it crashes anything in the way. :twisted:

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri May 01, 2009 9:44 am

tried this setting, planets =2 really sucks. Your opponents can get more than 2 planets in hw and in this case you're almost doomed.

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Wed May 06, 2009 2:48 am

I and Irakly (Overlord2 here) finished the game based on your setup (picks=14). It was EPIC!!. It ended in t 205 and i invented all aviable techs in t 193. It was a first mp game i saw doomstars and stellar conventers in action.
I'm sure i won't play it again :).

Eldariel
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Postby Eldariel » Fri May 08, 2009 5:57 pm

Cabman wrote:
The way we usually play now is
/nowh /noerport /richstart /planets=2 /noorion /nosplint /picks=14.

It's hard to advise you anything since we use only 10 picks.
Another thing: Reading through the forum I get the feeling that being Aquatic one ought to get Cloning early...
take a look at this movie
http://wap.mypuk.ru/tf8/moo_rep/Cabman_housing.avi
i think it's a good example how cloners are helpful.


What codecs does one need to view that video? I can't get it to play with VLC Player or FFDShowd anything and I'd really like to view it; I feel I could learn a thing or two.

Astax
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Postby Astax » Fri May 08, 2009 6:06 pm

there should be an option to install the proper codec that comes with dosbox.

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Sat May 09, 2009 5:22 am


Eldariel
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Postby Eldariel » Sat May 09, 2009 2:08 pm

Cabman wrote:Eldariel see this post http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2008 ... plays.html


Thanks. Got 'em running now. Really nice to be able to see just how much micromanagement you do (although I don't get all the population moves and how you can get so exactly the 30pp on every planet, but it'll come to me eventually).

Do similar videos exist of anyone playing a Demovore race? I'm much more of a tech race guy and I've got serious issues finding the right balance between workers and researchers.

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Sun May 10, 2009 5:29 am

Do similar videos exist of anyone playing a Demovore race?

Not yet...working on it :)


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