New race

Discussion on how to play against other humans.
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Kerensky
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New race

Postby Kerensky » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:19 am

seems unbalanced, but i was surprised how this one turned out.
still testing it.

UNnification

food -0.5
ship def -20
ground combat -10
espionage -10
Subterranean
Large HW
Warlord
Lucky (if random events used)

thoughts?

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Time
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Postby Time » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:54 am

I've chosen lucky in single player test games, and have still been effected by random events and artarans. It's not fool-proof, which makes it not worth its cost. There are usually a better choice for the spent rack picks.
Consider the same race with a small modification:

Unification
Ship Def -20
Ground Combat -10
Repulsive
Subterranean
Large HW
Warlord
Prod+1

More food, better spy defense, more production for faster ship building (for your warlord pick)
The trade off is a worse choice of leaders and no trading with AIs. In multi player games ... seems worth it.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

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Draxx Vengard
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Postby Draxx Vengard » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:08 pm

This may seem like a bad idea but I haven't lost once with it yet (against AI and on average)

Feudal
Large HW
Rich HW
Lithovore
-10 Espionage
+10 Ground
+10 Ship Attack

I think that's everything. I don't know, I've been using other people's races for awhile so I can't remember mine.
[Wash: Oh my g**! What could it be? Who's flying this thing?! Oh wait that would be me, back to work.]
[Mal: We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.]
Pardus

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Superchad
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Postby Superchad » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:43 am

Draxx Vengard wrote:This may seem like a bad idea but I haven't lost once with it yet (against AI and on average)

Feudal
Large HW
Rich HW
Lithovore
-10 Espionage
+10 Ground
+10 Ship Attack

I think that's everything. I don't know, I've been using other people's races for awhile so I can't remember mine.


Feudal takes away research (-50%)
You need pop modifiers (SubT, Aqua)
Don't be afraid to take Repulsive for a negative pick. You don't really like the AI anyways, you probably don't need to talk to them. For Multi-player games, the other player won't want to form any alliances, and at higher difficulties, the AI is less likely to as well.

A common production race is:
Unification
SubT
Aquatic
Production+1
Repulsive
- Ground Combat
- Ship Defense


This race grows very fast and can build very quickly.


I'm not telling you not to experiment, or to give up your strategy. Just giving you some basic pointers. Have fun, and good luck!
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johntfs
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Postby johntfs » Sun May 23, 2010 11:49 pm

I put this this together, but haven't tested it against other humans.

The Melkaii. an offshoot Human Race

Unification government
Telepathic
Creative
-50 Population
Repulsive

They're a telepathic hive-mind race that retains some individuality at local levels. Due to their telepathy and basic harmony with each other, they easily explore and test scientific hypotheses.

Because they are so often caught up in the higher mental plane, they're somewhat disinclined toward reproduction and often fall back on Cloning technology to maintain their population.

And they love you. The love the galaxy. And they want you to join with them in galactic harmony. So, they send out their ships and consume the minds of other races, reforging them in their own image. So, they tend to scare the living hell out everyone else in the galaxy. Nobody wants to negotiate with them for fear of being taken over. Thus, they're Repulsive.

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Time
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Postby Time » Mon May 24, 2010 5:14 pm

Hi johntfs and welcome to the forums.

Now, the tough love.

You might find this works on average in a single player game, but, against anyone who knows what they are doing, you would be rushed before you could be a threat.

This race's biggest weakness is its lack of ability to grow.
Almost everyone would agree that races with a pop max modifier defeat the ones without one.
So, that would mean adding Aquatic, Subterranean, or Tolerant, somehow, to your race.
Otherwise, you will have many Low populauion planets (under 15) instead of High population planets (up to 42).
Test your race, and you will see this.

Creative works fine in single player games, but, in multiplayer games, you would get rushed before you could build all of those buildings you opened up with your expensive Creative pick.

Let me suggest a revised version, that I found worked well, in single and multiplayer LAN games I've had.

Unification (great start, no change here)
Telepathic (your race theme, no change here)
ok, that's 12 points, assuming MOO2 version 1.31 or 1.40 version
The other 8 points, I would spend this way.
Aquatic (5 points) - adding a pop max modifier
Production +1 (3 points) - for more production

Aquatic also gives you more food. Fewer farmers needed means another worker or scientist.

For the penalties:
Repulsive (great choice, no change here)
Try these two instead of -50 pop growth.
-20 Ground Combat
-20 Ship Defense

Your race will grow its population at the normal rate, and you could reword the intro you wrote to say, "They are weaker in ground combat, because, they focused on their mental abilities" or something clever like that.
Remember, Telepathic races have to build Cruiser or larger ships to be able to mind control planets, where others can build fleets of destroyers. So, you will benefit from the increased production that a simple Prod+1 can grant. It effectively makes every Poor planet an Abundant, every Ultra Poor, a Poor, and the higher ones, better at building ships faster.

Try it.
Let us know what you think.
:D
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

johntfs
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Postby johntfs » Tue May 25, 2010 5:46 pm

I will. Though one thing I'll vary is taking -20 Ship attack instead of -10 Ground combat. One of my favorite tactics with a Telepathic race is boarding, especially Star Bases and the like. I can effectively ignore their armor/shields if I get close enough and if there are planetary defenses, I turn their orbital station into a bombardment platform.

Also, with a Tractor beam, I can capture enemy ships and either use them myself or scrap them for extra money.

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Time
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Postby Time » Tue May 25, 2010 6:04 pm

That could work in singleplayer games.
Remember, the Ship Initiative formula uses Ship Attack and Beams weapons to determine who goes first.
In multiplayer games, you could lose ships before all of your ships can attack.
Also, to hit with Neutron Beams (to kill the crew off before boarding) you will need to be accurate, -20 Ship Attack will hurt you here.
When the crew is 0, you can have the worst bonuses, and still capture the ship.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

johntfs
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Postby johntfs » Tue May 25, 2010 10:50 pm

My thing that that there's such a huge number of things in the game that boost your Ship Attack, especially later on as you go up the Tech ladder, that you can lose 20 and still be okay.

Also, I really like to use boarding tactics to capture Antaran vessels so I can grab X-armor and Damper Fields.

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rewster1
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Postby rewster1 » Thu May 27, 2010 7:07 am

Actually there aren't really that many things that boost ship attack. Only computer and battle scanner, really. Your crew will most likely be the equal of the opponent's crew, so no boost there, and maybe you'll get a little increase from a starbase, but that's it. And you might not get a decent computer until mid game, so early on that -20 will hurt very badly. Trust me, I got beat recently in an online game and this was a big part of why. You have to imagine that your opponent will also equip battle scanner, and will also be researching a good computer... so you never catch up.

johntfs
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Postby johntfs » Thu May 27, 2010 11:58 am

That's true. However, if I have a good ground combat, I don't have to beat you ship to ship, especially once I get Tractor beams. I can build a lot of smaller, faster ships, close with you, grab your vessel and then take it over without needing to beat it.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri May 28, 2010 6:33 am

rewster1 wrote:Actually there aren't really that many things that boost ship attack. Only computer and battle scanner, really. Your crew will most likely be the equal of the opponent's crew, so no boost there, and maybe you'll get a little increase from a starbase, but that's it. And you might not get a decent computer until mid game, so early on that -20 will hurt very badly. Trust me, I got beat recently in an online game and this was a big part of why. You have to imagine that your opponent will also equip battle scanner, and will also be researching a good computer... so you never catch up.

Yes, initiative will receive heavy blow if someone takes -attack in regular moo. Unlike VDC there are two viable computers - cybertronic and molec, so while molec is too far away in regular, cybertronic is mostly chosen. Mutation is hell far away too. Therefore -attack race has no resources to get an edge.
Btw, starbase doesn't give any bonus to attack (and consequently initiative). Battle Station or Star Frotress does, but they are very unlikely to be gotten in regular moo. Also fighting at your outpost (only in case your are attacked) does increase beam attack and defense by 10, but it's foolish to count on you will be fighting your decisive battle there.

Edit: forgot to mention about colony without starbase, in that case you get +10 to attack/defense too. That might help when defending...
Last edited by Overlord2 on Fri May 28, 2010 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri May 28, 2010 6:45 am

johntfs wrote:That's true. However, if I have a good ground combat, I don't have to beat you ship to ship, especially once I get Tractor beams. I can build a lot of smaller, faster ships, close with you, grab your vessel and then take it over without needing to beat it.

Hehe, this is exactly the tactics rewster wanted to use on me, see the outcome:
http://rapidshare.com/files/392501292/SAVE8.GAM

johntfs
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Postby johntfs » Sun May 30, 2010 1:35 am

I'll try it next time with Ground Attack -10, Ship Defense -20, Production +2, Rich Homeworld, Unification, Repulsive and Telepathic.

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Time
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Postby Time » Sun May 30, 2010 1:54 pm

johntfs wrote:I'll try it next time with Ground Attack -10, Ship Defense -20, Production +2, Rich Homeworld, Unification, Repulsive and Telepathic.

This can work in solo games, if, you seek out the higher pop races, and conquer them, especially, Sakkra and Trilarian.
These two, if at least 1 of their pop is transferred to your worlds, can boost each of your planets up in pop sizes together, and by alot, after the planets are fully terraformed.
You will need Biospheres initially, and alot of pollution controls for all of that production.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).


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