Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Discussion on how to play against other humans.
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Dukinson
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Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:13 am

I'm curious to know what race you find most powerful with this mod. So far it seems like something unification or democracy is strongest.
A cob of corn in every pot, an outpost ship with fuel tanks in every garage, and two command points for every colony!

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Overlord2
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Overlord2 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:31 am

If you are up to we can check in MP.

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Dukinson
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:53 pm

Hahah, that wasn't so much a challenge. I play on a tablet in dosbox, I don't think multiplayer would be possible for me. Playing against humans is just too much a time sink anyways, I used to play many years ago on "Ten" or whatever the interface was when it first came out and games just take an eternity. Especially with tactical.
A cob of corn in every pot, an outpost ship with fuel tanks in every garage, and two command points for every colony!

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Dukinson
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:26 pm

How do you guys play multiplayer these days anyways?
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Darza
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Darza » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:39 pm

Dukinson wrote:How do you guys play multiplayer these days anyways?

Be careful with such questions, as they show that you just post and dont read. Say, that means what some of your other questions could been answered long ago too.

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Dukinson
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:55 pm

Ah ya, didn't take too much digging. Kali. Maybe I'll try it sometime if I can find someone who likes strategic.

Say, Darza, has anyone ever told you you have quite the venomous tongue? Relax there buddy, I just got here.
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Overlord2
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Overlord2 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:21 pm

I play on a tablet in dosbox, I don't think multiplayer would be possible for me.

MP is possible on a crappy previous centuries PCs & notebooks while dosbox is exactly the program which is needed for MP.

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Dukinson
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:00 pm

So no one has any race recommendations here? I'm trying to make a dictatorship race work but in Icecoldx impossible strategic, frankly I'm getting waxed now. I might have to dissolve some of my game rules to make it easier.

Dictatorship
Subterranean
+2 Prod
+2 Food
+20 Spying (or +2 research)
Large HW
Lowg
Repulsive

This is the race I'm using for unification and it seems the best because we all know unitol has always been powerful:

Unification
Tolerant
with...
Large HW +1 Prod
or
Rich HW +25 ship defense

This is the democracy I use:

Democracy
Lithovore
Rich HW
+1 Research

The last two races are variants of the super races. Ofcourse those should do well but perhaps there is something better I'm missing. I'd love to hear some suggestions to improve these races or a completely different race you believe to be stronger.
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Rocco
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Rocco » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:34 am

Population growth is key.

Things will improve if you included a pop growth in your race, +50% or +100%.
A big difference between ice and ice-x is that in x, all races have a pop growth %
Also most have a max pop modifier like Aqua, Subt or Tol.

From a post in Civfanatics you said that you can feel 'Lithovorish' in ice because your tech path in Biology is Hydro and Subt Farms. These farms are actually not cheap at 1 BC per food and moreover, it means you are skipping on Biospheres and Cloners.

Then there is the art of housing. This is a good video to watch the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvmHMwODHeU&index=3&list=PL2qsn6wX2QECKZr68SIcLgCZa3cuy6Keg

Also a good guide for empire expansion:
http://masteroforion2.blogspot.nl/2005/03/master-of-orion-ii-strategy-guide.html

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Overlord2
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Overlord2 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:41 am

Dukinson wrote:So no one has any race recommendations here?

There could be one race or another, you couldn't know if you don't play. Rephrasing your words "discussion against humans is just too much a time sink" and no result. I prefer to find out everything on practice. If you are up to we can try.

Edit: checked again and unitol prod is the fastest. I had in mind other race, which could try to compete with this race, but I was wrong.

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Dukinson
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:24 pm

Overlord2 wrote:There could be one race or another, you couldn't know if you don't play. Rephrasing your words "discussion against humans is just too much a time sink" and no result. I prefer to find out everything on practice.


So I take it form this you don't believe playing against the AI is a good test of a race? I'm sure getting "tested" by playing against the AI. As far as "discussion against humans... etc" I'm not sure what this means but what I meant is that it takes a long time to play games in multiplayer. It's been many years since I've played one, maybe 15 years or more, but I remember that playing just 1 game took a tremendous amount of time. I could play several games against the AI in that time.


Rocco wrote:Population growth is key.

Things will improve if you included a pop growth in your race, +50% or +100%.
A big difference between ice and ice-x is that in x, all races have a pop growth %
Also most have a max pop modifier like Aqua, Subt or Tol.

From a post in Civfanatics you said that you can feel 'Lithovorish' in ice because your tech path in Biology is Hydro and Subt Farms. These farms are actually not cheap at 1 BC per food and moreover, it means you are skipping on Biospheres and Cloners.

Then there is the art of housing. This is a good video to watch the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvmHMwODHeU&index=3&list=PL2qsn6wX2QECKZr68SIcLgCZa3cuy6Keg

Also a good guide for empire expansion:
http://masteroforion2.blogspot.nl/2005/03/master-of-orion-ii-strategy-guide.html


I always play with pop modifers like tolerant or sub and I did happen to notice how you changed most of the AI races to have a pop modifier, that's how powerful those racial picks are. Growth is important too, but I am already quite the expert at expansion and housing. It's just that hard to play icex on strategic. I challenge you to try playing a few games to completion without the advantageous tactical mode and see what race does best. I'm actually starting to get the hang of the dictatorship spy race I listed. I don't normally play dictatorships but you've made some good changes to make it more appealing. Namely more accessible moral techs.

You know it's funny you mention that food techs, I have been playing around with cloning centers. What I meant by lithovorish, is that it's a fairly decent advantage to have 5 food on every colony. Helps when besieged by enemy ships and frees up quite a bit of workers as well. It sort of depends on what planets I find but I'm trying to utilize cloners more. But biospheres, I already have such huge planets it seems more important to have the freed up workers and siege resistance but I'll try biospheres a couple games and see how it goes. Having the 2 extra pop should mean more overall effect once the planet hits the maximum, for sure.
A cob of corn in every pot, an outpost ship with fuel tanks in every garage, and two command points for every colony!

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Overlord2
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Overlord2 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:31 pm

So I take it form this you don't believe playing against the AI is a good test of a race?

AI is very random. You can get different AI races as opponents at a time and result will be different. If you want to see the race's performance as it is, it's better to play without any AI at all.
As far as "discussion against humans... etc" I'm not sure what this means but what I meant is that it takes a long time to play games in multiplayer.

I tried to make a joke rephrasing your "playing vs humans takes a lot of time". What I really meant is the time you spend on writing posts in the forums takes more time than you would spend it on a game with human player. I saw how many posts you wrote in CIV forum and would be enough to finish at least several games with human.

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Dukinson
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Dukinson » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:23 pm

Overlord2 wrote:I tried to make a joke rephrasing your "playing vs humans takes a lot of time". What I really meant is the time you spend on writing posts in the forums takes more time than you would spend it on a game with human player. I saw how many posts you wrote in CIV forum and would be enough to finish at least several games with human.


Hahah. Hey, I type around 45-60 words per minute. I much prefer single player, but I may try multiplayer sometime soon. I assume in many ways it's much easier to beat a human than the cheating AI.
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Overlord2
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Re: Icemod: What's your most powerful race design?

Postby Overlord2 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:11 am

I assume in many ways it's much easier to beat a human than the cheating AI.

Depends on opponent's skill and also on AI race designs. If you encounter human with low skills it could be that tough AI can put up higher opposition than weak human.


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