I noticed in Alex's tutorial that the star base was scrapped first turn. I was wondering if this is common and whether it depends on what race and map settings you are playing (average or pre-warp, large or medium, etc). I'm assuming it does.
Getting rid of the star base gives you 200 BC right away as well as 2 additional BC each turn after. The extra money can be used to buy colony bases sooner, and it probably speeds up the opening by several turns. But I'm not sure it's worth it. Defensively, the star base isn't very useful, because the enemy can just blockade you and attack your other colonies that don't have star bases. But the ability to build cruisers and battleships is important. Unless you are warlord, it is difficult to make an effective army of destroyers and frigates without running into serious command point problems (already down to 5 command points). So it seems like you'll eventually have to rebuild the star base anyway.
Just wondering what other players think about this.
Sacrificing your star base
pro "scrapping":
I usually expand and try to tech up to supers, if I get blitzed I lost anyway, so a StarBase woudnt help much.
If someone attacks early (t40-60) u dont have enuff prod to build a BB.
The boost of scrapping allows u getting earlyer supers robos and pollution techs, so lets say u get atmos 3turns earlyer than without scrapping Starbase. So u have 3turns to build a starbase to be equal. ... and u usually get monsters for building fleet instead of Homeplanet.
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pro "don´t scrapping":
If ur corner is shit u can go for wartechs and attack early with a BB.
If someone attacks u in midgame (t70-85) u r able to build a BB more fast.
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The more prod ur HW has, the less u need it for food producion the better it is don´t to scrap ur Starbase in t0 ihmo.
But all depends on ur tactics etc ... I´d like to scrapp my StarBase mostly ... others don´t like to do. U should know the pros and cons and find ur own way.
I usually expand and try to tech up to supers, if I get blitzed I lost anyway, so a StarBase woudnt help much.
If someone attacks early (t40-60) u dont have enuff prod to build a BB.
The boost of scrapping allows u getting earlyer supers robos and pollution techs, so lets say u get atmos 3turns earlyer than without scrapping Starbase. So u have 3turns to build a starbase to be equal. ... and u usually get monsters for building fleet instead of Homeplanet.
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pro "don´t scrapping":
If ur corner is shit u can go for wartechs and attack early with a BB.
If someone attacks u in midgame (t70-85) u r able to build a BB more fast.
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The more prod ur HW has, the less u need it for food producion the better it is don´t to scrap ur Starbase in t0 ihmo.
But all depends on ur tactics etc ... I´d like to scrapp my StarBase mostly ... others don´t like to do. U should know the pros and cons and find ur own way.
selling the starbase helps a lot of people uber expand.
the 200 bc you get lets you buy a colony base as early as 3-5 turns. which means you have a housing planet as early as 3 turns. which means faster pop.
faster pop means faster tech, production, everything.
you also make more money from not maintaining starbase, which helps build stuff like labs/autos etc.
if you dont use your home planet as a main source of bb production, then it wouldnt hurt much to scrap the sb. but if you do need to use your home planet for building bbs, then the starbase is worth keeping.
most times, most games, home planets end up being farm planets due to poor sectors. if that happens starbase would go to waste anyhow then.
typically, i hardly sell sb in multiplayer games, but when i play single, i scrap it right away without 2nd thoughts.
the 200 bc you get lets you buy a colony base as early as 3-5 turns. which means you have a housing planet as early as 3 turns. which means faster pop.
faster pop means faster tech, production, everything.
you also make more money from not maintaining starbase, which helps build stuff like labs/autos etc.
if you dont use your home planet as a main source of bb production, then it wouldnt hurt much to scrap the sb. but if you do need to use your home planet for building bbs, then the starbase is worth keeping.
most times, most games, home planets end up being farm planets due to poor sectors. if that happens starbase would go to waste anyhow then.
typically, i hardly sell sb in multiplayer games, but when i play single, i scrap it right away without 2nd thoughts.
It seems like when you know you're probably going be at war early you would want to keep the star base. The command points allow you to build more small ships and the defensive bonus could help.
If you know that the other players will tech up to supers before war then you would benefit more from scrapping it because you would be able to out expand anyone that didn't scrap their star base.
If you know that the other players will tech up to supers before war then you would benefit more from scrapping it because you would be able to out expand anyone that didn't scrap their star base.
Selling 400pp for 200BC in not a good trade when u know u´ll rebuild a starbase on ur Homeplanet.
If u rebuild it on t100 u save 2BC*100t=200BC.
So its somethin about 400pp for 400BC, but all in all u waste prod.
On the other had selling starbase gives u an early economical boost.
U could see scrapping starbase like a loan with high interest.
If u scrap or not depends on ur felling how u assess the map/game.
If u rebuild it on t100 u save 2BC*100t=200BC.
So its somethin about 400pp for 400BC, but all in all u waste prod.
On the other had selling starbase gives u an early economical boost.
U could see scrapping starbase like a loan with high interest.
If u scrap or not depends on ur felling how u assess the map/game.
Here is what I think about scapping your Star Base:
If you value each 1 production unit worth 2 BCs (the cheapest and most cost effictive way of buying production) and you get 200 BCs for scrapping your StarBase +2 each turn (maintainance cost), that would equal 800 BCs at turn 300, the production cost of buying a StarBase if you were spend the BCs outright on production, which is the break-even point. So, if you could justify not having a StarBase for the first 300 turns, then by all means expand! (it is well worth the cost of scapping)
However, you could also get more BCs and production capability by expanding, early on, that is by building population. So, that would reduce the Break-even point of sacrificing your StarBase. If you equate the cost of sacrificing your StarBase to a Cloning Center (100 prdouction cost = 200 BCs) initially + another one at every 100 turns, 2BCs per turn remember. And lets say each population creates 5 production/turn then to get to 600 BCs, the left over cost of sacrificing the StarBase that would take 120 turns for a total of having 1 pop extra (600BCs/5producton-turn=120) ; however you'd have more than just 1 pop extra, you'd have about 1 population extra per 10 turns, so after 20 turns that would be 5x2 = 10 production, to get to 600 BCs would take only 60 turns, and by turn 30 after the cloning center is built that would be an extra 15 production/turn which would be only 40 turns thereafter to reach the break-even point...
So, after knowing all this I could say that it is worthwhile to sacrifice your StarBase if you build a Cloning Center ASAP and do your regular thing, easily by 70 turns into the game after you've built the cloning center, you should have the advantage! Then you may rebuild your StarBase if you want to, but I know the breakeven is even less than this.
In conclusion, if the game lasts more than 70 turns after you build a Cloning Center (minimum) then it is worthwhile to Sacrifice your StarBase and if it help you survive a rush, ie. - you can build a ship faster then by all means, do it!!!
The only time I think its not worthwhile to sacrifice your StarBase is if you know they will suicide something on it in lets say the first 70 turns of the game, after the Cloning Center! (I know it is actually less than this because you will have a head-start on other buildings too)
If you value each 1 production unit worth 2 BCs (the cheapest and most cost effictive way of buying production) and you get 200 BCs for scrapping your StarBase +2 each turn (maintainance cost), that would equal 800 BCs at turn 300, the production cost of buying a StarBase if you were spend the BCs outright on production, which is the break-even point. So, if you could justify not having a StarBase for the first 300 turns, then by all means expand! (it is well worth the cost of scapping)
However, you could also get more BCs and production capability by expanding, early on, that is by building population. So, that would reduce the Break-even point of sacrificing your StarBase. If you equate the cost of sacrificing your StarBase to a Cloning Center (100 prdouction cost = 200 BCs) initially + another one at every 100 turns, 2BCs per turn remember. And lets say each population creates 5 production/turn then to get to 600 BCs, the left over cost of sacrificing the StarBase that would take 120 turns for a total of having 1 pop extra (600BCs/5producton-turn=120) ; however you'd have more than just 1 pop extra, you'd have about 1 population extra per 10 turns, so after 20 turns that would be 5x2 = 10 production, to get to 600 BCs would take only 60 turns, and by turn 30 after the cloning center is built that would be an extra 15 production/turn which would be only 40 turns thereafter to reach the break-even point...
So, after knowing all this I could say that it is worthwhile to sacrifice your StarBase if you build a Cloning Center ASAP and do your regular thing, easily by 70 turns into the game after you've built the cloning center, you should have the advantage! Then you may rebuild your StarBase if you want to, but I know the breakeven is even less than this.
In conclusion, if the game lasts more than 70 turns after you build a Cloning Center (minimum) then it is worthwhile to Sacrifice your StarBase and if it help you survive a rush, ie. - you can build a ship faster then by all means, do it!!!
The only time I think its not worthwhile to sacrifice your StarBase is if you know they will suicide something on it in lets say the first 70 turns of the game, after the Cloning Center! (I know it is actually less than this because you will have a head-start on other buildings too)
If it is a wh game without blitz and omni ban, then its very risky to scrap it. If an omni blitzer can choose between 2 same ranged targets he would take the SB scraper, bcos hes hasn´t extra defence for his homeplanet and hes the better bounty in case of tech and pop.
From the economic side ... I have the same meaning:) !So, after knowing all this I could say that it is worthwhile to sacrifice your StarBase
Also, I forgot to mention, if you get one of those famous leaders with megawealth early on, first few turns of the game, the payoff could come even sooner. It would take 60 turns for the famous leader to generate 600BC for you to spend. And the leader costs only about 80BCs I think, so that would cut turns off from the Breakeven point. So, by turn 50 (500 from leader and 200-80=120 from StarBase), not to mention you get 2BCs per turn, you could be in the money($), have additional production, science, and rebuild your StarBase then... not so risky if you get lucky early on!!!
Another way to make it payoff is after you build your first Colony Base is: wait a turn and then recklessly buy that Automated Factory for about 220 BCs or so, depending... the Automated Factory will produce 5 production + 1 for each extra pop. And by doing housing on it, you generate more than +100 pop/turn, at this rate the payoff is less than 30 turns later (60 production for the first 10 turns, then you get an extra population unit which you may move back to your home planet (just like a Cloning Center) Lets see with 3 extra population period, its like getting 15 production/turn and that would become 300 production units in 20 turns, So, easily by turn 50 in the game you've lost nothing (unless you are Blitzed)!
Another way to make it payoff is after you build your first Colony Base is: wait a turn and then recklessly buy that Automated Factory for about 220 BCs or so, depending... the Automated Factory will produce 5 production + 1 for each extra pop. And by doing housing on it, you generate more than +100 pop/turn, at this rate the payoff is less than 30 turns later (60 production for the first 10 turns, then you get an extra population unit which you may move back to your home planet (just like a Cloning Center) Lets see with 3 extra population period, its like getting 15 production/turn and that would become 300 production units in 20 turns, So, easily by turn 50 in the game you've lost nothing (unless you are Blitzed)!
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