UniCreative

Discussion on how to play against other humans.
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Matthew
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UniCreative

Postby Matthew » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:56 pm

I have tried this against the AI but not against a human opponent. It totally crushed the AI but not sure viable it would be for online play.

Unification
Creative
Repulsive
Ship Defense -20
Ground Combat -10
+1 Production
Large HW
Rich HW

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:06 pm

I think the problem with this race will be storing POP on the small planets.

If u get some arids/terran/gaia´s it would be ok, otherwise u´ll get some problems ... !

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siron
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Postby siron » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:51 pm

SkyBandit played this race several times. When you find monsters or these nice planets mentioned by ALEX|D it can actually compete in a 4way when it has time to develop....more difficult in duels....

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:14 pm

id prolly use that race if i were thinking about attacking or blitzing someone early on, otherwise it would be hard for it to expand without any pop modifiers.

play unicrea with aqua or sub mods, those two are the best and fastest creative races in moo2. of course theoretically theyre not supposed to as good as morale based races like demolith or crealith etc, theyre still faster because of increased production and farming.

unisub crea would be the best creative race cause its fast and it has best pop than any other creative races, (of course you could try a aqua/sub/crea race but that would be kinda slow to show any effect), but uniaqua crea is faster than sub variant because it techs and builds faster due to increased food production.

and if you want to expand early with uniaqua crea or unisub crea, just sell of those starbases and use the money to build cbases, tech faster and build cship faster with autofacts.

if youre worried that it wont have enough production bonus, just make up for it with tech by getting production techs such as nano dissassemblers and microlite construction etc.


otherwise, creative is extremely hard to play though very fun to play, because essentially, a uni aqua creative large, is really just uni aqua large at the core race of it, compared to a uni aqua +2prod a race that has increased production, of course youre gonna be slower than them.

i think you can easily pop and expand and get 80 pop by turn 100 with uniaqua crea, say if you build cbases first, get rlabs/autos/bios, build 2nd cship, get cloners, build 3rd cship, or if you skip cloners, cship after neurals, that way youll have 4 systems and you should be able to make adequate pop. you can do the same with sub variant. i once got a system with bunch of rich planets in it, playing subcreative, and i ended up having 100+ pop by turn 100, and i got supers/robos/autolabs/cybertronic comps all by turn 100. prolly my best creative game test so far.

so if you find a natives, or rich planet or two, even those urich heavy g planets, they all help you out a lot. if i were playing demoaqua crea, id prolly look for gem/gold planets instead of natives, since they give a good 20bc boost in money which helps build faster.

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Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:48 pm

So Kfizzle you would change it to this?

Unification
Creative
Repulsive
Ship Defense -20
Ground Combat -10
Aquatic
Large HW

or

Unification
Creative
Repulsive
Ship Defense -20
Ground Combat -10
Subterranian

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Lavarn
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Postby Lavarn » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:10 pm

Unification
Creative
Repulsive
Ship Defense -20
Ground Combat -10
Subterranian
This last one is interesting to me because I've never found a good unisub race. It's tough to know what to do with the other 8 picks. Is creative a playable pick here? Any other unisub suggestions?

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 pm

uniaquasub prod1

A bit slow, but a stable race !

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Lavarn
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Postby Lavarn » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:18 pm

uniaquasub prod1

A bit slow, but a stable race !
Prod1 and not large hw, rich hw? I assume you're picking clones here and not soil enrichment. Any unisub races without aquatic? I don't like picking clones that much because it seems too dependent on finding fairly large wet planets, and sometimes I don't have any place to build it.

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:04 pm

So Kfizzle you would change it to this?
yes id change it to those two races,
i suppose the biggest difference youll notice is that

it takes 12 turns to build a cbase with uniaqua crea, while it takes 15 turns to build a cbase with unisub crea. with your race it would take 8 turns to build a cbase at beginning.

i actually like you race, because of the added production, but as you would expand, there's going to be a time that comes when your home planet will be completely turned into a food planet. youll lose your rich hw pick. and its not a lithy race where short planet pops wouldnt matter as much, but it is a food dependant race that needs good farming planets such as gaias, terrans, or swamps. so naturally, it is a monster dependent race, and with the right monster, it could prolly get a monster by turn 50ish.

without an early monster, this race will prolly lose most of its early homeworld advantage compared to other uni races, otherwise, this race can always attack better than any other creative race, which is prolly its biggest advantage.

if you look at other creative races such as uniaqua crea, being aqua, it upgrades 50% of all planets types to at least a terran status or gaia status. 50% of all planets basically could be 50% of all map. unisub crea on other hand, sub pretty much increases pop by 6 pop on average on each planet size regardless of planet class or in terms of percents anywhere between 40% to 200% pop boost dependant on class and size. additional pop means more pop to do farming, production, research, more income etc etc.

having either aqua or sub in your creative race, will help expand easier as well as increase pop. keeps you less worried about expansion.

with +1 prod and rich hw, you have to constantly expand or at least land a good terran or two to survive. but +1prod rich hw has best ability to go down a wh first and do an early creative strike.

this doesnt mean the other uni creative races cant build a bb by turn 100 either, they can still prolly build 2, it just takes them a little longer.

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Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:06 pm

Unification
Creative
Repulsive
Ship Defense -20
Ground Combat -10
Subterranian
This last one is interesting to me because I've never found a good unisub race. It's tough to know what to do with the other 8 picks. Is creative a playable pick here? Any other unisub suggestions?
Creative might work in some situations.

UniAquaSub sounds good.

You could also go with something like this.

Uni
Sub
Rep
SD -20
GC -10
+50% Growth
+1 Production
Rich Hw

I can easily defeat the AI with this but it might not work for online play.

UniTol seems like it would be the most solid race pick but if people always play that then it's gets old fast.

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:16 pm

This last one is interesting to me because I've never found a good unisub race. It's tough to know what to do with the other 8 picks. Is creative a playable pick here? Any other unisub suggestions?
good unisub races include:
unisub aqua with +1prod or rich/large hw
unisub +2prod rich hw

there's also:
unisub +1food +1prod large

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Lavarn
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Postby Lavarn » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:43 pm

good unisub races include:
unisub aqua with +1prod or rich/large hw
unisub +2prod rich hw

there's also:
unisub +1food +1prod large
With the first one, I never know whether to take +1prod or rich/large hw. Rich/large tends to be a little faster in expanding out of the opening, but with +1prod you can house faster and it tends to be more important later on. As you mentioned, with rich hw there's always the danger of not finding any other good farming planets, so the pick becomes partially wasted. I'm a little worried about taking rich hw without large hw (as in your second race) for this reason.

I've always thought the combination of +1food and large hw is kind of like aquatic but worse. I haven't had much success using the +1/+2 food picks.

Matthew's +50% growth idea is interesting. But still, with unisub there seems to be no nice way to use the remaining 8 picks. Hmmm, maybe that's why people just pick tolerant instead :wink:

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:26 am

tolerant isnt always the best thing in the game, granted they build fastest,
but i consider uniaqua +2prod a better race than tolerant, especially because they have the ability to double pop when they get androids, unlike tolerant, which treat androids as regular people.

another note would be: uni aqua/sub +2prod with pollution techs make better prod than unitol with +1prod. the difference is the opportunity cost or opportunities lost to being non tolerant, is the idea that tolerant for the first 50-70 turns, can pretty much build/expand very fast, where as it takes non-tolerant races, a good 50 turns at least to get pol procs or atmos etc. another note would be, tolerant races dont have to tech pollution techs, which saves them time to tech another techs such as weapons or shields etc.

unisub +2prod rich is a good race, and after a certain amount of turns, you lose the rich hw bonus, but at the beginning in an average game, you can use that to your advantage and expand early on as much as possible, the only different between unisub +2prod and uniaqua +2prod is that the aqua variant techs faster, but has good pop only on 50% of map, while sub has good pop on all map thru-out.

typically when i play unisub +2prod, i treat it just like unitol, get soils first, then supers, and expand like crazy as much as possible. typically id always try to get 4-5 systems minimum by turn 100. or reach 100 pop by turn 100 whichever first. after a certain amount of systems, it does seem harder and harder to micromanage them.

and unisubaqua with a rich hw does have the chances of losing rich hw bonus, but it also get 28 pop on its home planet +2 from biospheres, so its not that bad even if half the whole pop on planet were farming, there'd still be 15 other guys utilizing the rich homeworld. and cause of aqua, 50% of map is already terran/gaia status (all wet planets) and they all make 3 food minimum. think oceans, terrans, and gaias make 4.5 food with this race, while swamp and tundras make 3 so its not really that bad finding another food planet.

if all things come down to worse of not finding good 2nd food planets, just simply skip cloners and get soil enrichment. that would help out with food production.

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:27 am

if you like sub as a pick, you should give sublith a shot. thats a fun race.

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:08 pm

Prod1 and not large hw, rich hw?
For usual games prod1 is better. LRHW builds faster cbases on HW, but on the first system u settle, with ur cship, u grow slower ur pop, cos u have less prod. Prod1 has better housing, and can build afacs and rlabs etc faster.

So all in all prod1 is in most cases the better choice.
tolerant isnt always the best thing in the game, granted they build fastest,
If u head up for cloners/soil then supers, tol is the better race for most maps.

All depends on the maps and settings ... but mostly tol would win.

Uniaqua prod2 lrhw is a more flexible race and good for xways with wh´s.
but i consider uniaqua +2prod a better race than tolerant, especially because they have the ability to double pop when they get androids, unlike tolerant, which treat androids as regular people.
With uniaqu prod+2 u´ll get droids late. I think this tactic would mostly fail vs an agressive tol-player.


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