Lithovores: WHY?

Discussion on how to play against other humans.
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Gusset
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Postby Gusset » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:45 pm

I like DIC LITH PROD1 SUB LHW too !

Usually u can tech up fast to supers without building a cship.

Mostly I go for supers directly after bios, but u if u got some time u can go for cloners, before supers, too.

If u find one or two good mosters u have chances to beat uni races.
I've never considered racing up to supers before putting out colony ships. I'll have to give that a try. (Ave tech start, correct?)

Thanks, Alex.

-Gusset

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KFizzle
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Re: Lithovores: WHY?

Postby KFizzle » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Sub is a great pick, but if anything, it partners better with lithovore than with any other racial pick
you know what? i agree with that, like how aqua and tolerant works best with unification, demo and sub works best with lithovore. the only other time where sub works great with any other pick besides lithovore, is with aqua, where the combined effect gives an increase in maximum pop with at least 70% free pop (non farmers), where as sublith gives all free pop.

id consider in terms of pop availability, subaqua and sublith the best pop races.

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KFizzle
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Sublith Tests

Postby KFizzle » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:05 am

you know what? ive been testing out the different variants,
ive tested out sublith +1prod with sublith +50gro.

so far: i like sublith gro more. partly because there's no uni in this race, so the +1prod doesnt get multiplied. nevetheless +1prod builds better, but it is lesser pop. less pop means less people to build with and tech with.

so naturally, sublith gro techs fast. faster than +prod. but, its not that bad if it doesnt build as good as +prod, you still have extra pop to build with which boosts production. so +gro variant is better, at least until you run out of space to expand to.

i tried out alex's tactic, tech supers first then build 2nd cship. i normally used that tactic anyhow all the time, but it is good tactic with this race, since it helps tech faster.

both variants +prod and +gro techs supers by turn 60ish if you skip cloners. only difference is +prod takes about 25 turns to get supers, while +gro takes about 20 turns. or at least around give or take.

in terms of pop, if you skip cloners,
by turn 100 sublith +prod will have 60+ pop, while +gro will have 75+ pop. if you get cloners, +prod will have about 80 while +gro will have about 100.

also +gro gets androids faster than +prod by about five turns if you race for droids right after supers if you skip cloners. i dont know if that helps with sublith much, because sublith doesnt get tolerant pop bonus like aqua or just plain lith when it gets droids. naturally tolerant never gets any extra pop bonus when they get droids either.

you know what though? i never tried out sublith arti large yet that much, i always preferred +prod or +gro over arti. wouldnt mind getting rich hw over arti either. was never really fond of arti that much.

so i cant tell what im missing out on with sublith arti, i know a lot of people like and prefer that race over +gro variant.

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siron
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Postby siron » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:45 am

in terms of pop, if you skip cloners,
by turn 100 sublith +prod will have 60+ pop, while +gro will have 75+ pop. if you get cloners, +prod will have about 80 while +gro will have about 100.

also +gro gets androids faster than +prod by about five turns if you race for droids right after supers if you skip cloners. i dont know if that helps with sublith much, because sublith doesnt get tolerant pop bonus like aqua or just plain lith when it gets droids. naturally tolerant never gets any extra pop bonus when they get droids either.
I would like to see the T100 or droids saves when you state your results as some general benchmarks. Also T0 Save would be nice to replay the maps with several races. (Just use CORION for this.) I am sure players with other micromanagement strategies will have different results.

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siron
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Postby siron » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:51 am

See you on the field, win or lose! (If you want to set up a time for a duel, PM me.)
I am almost each day on the kali chatserver ~1800 EST. I can play roundabout 2 hours then. And if I have no time to play you will surely find further lith opponents there.

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:43 am

Ramidel wrote:
See you on the field, win or lose! (If you want to set up a time for a duel, PM me.)

Siron wrote:
I am almost each day on the kali chatserver ~1800 EST. I can play roundabout 2 hours then. And if I have no time to play you will surely find further lith opponents there.
yup ; same with me, and i have more time to play. I'd love to compare my Dict sub lith strategy with you Ramidel ...or any other :>

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:10 am

I would like to see the T100 or droids saves when you state your results as some general benchmarks
well i dont know if theres a way to upload files to this forum, but i went ahead and uploaded my sublith gro save to http://www.geocities.com/kfizzle/sublith.zip just click on link and download, if the site goes down or something, you gotta give it an hour for it to come back, not like i ever get any hits on there these days anyhow, my moo2 website days are gone....

this zip has a turn 0 save and a turn 102/3 save with droids. you can replay turn 0 save and try you tactics and see what works for you. i played no cloners, since i hardly play any cloners these days anymore. its hard to admit, but these days only time i feel like using cloners is when im just lith, then i use cloners sometimes. it boosts pop by 20 for just lith races like demo/uni.

you know what? you gotta love corion2, its the best save editor for cross testing races on the same map. i used to use it all the time. it lets you edit races, and even homeworld if you need to. so feel free to use corion2 and test out map with different lithy races if you will.

and it would be great if you guys could list your results around here, like how many pop did you get by what turn, and how fast did you get supers, i got it turn 60 this game, how fast did you get androids, did you use cloners or no cloners approach, etc.

oh another particular note, my save is monsterless. you can use use switch /monsters=0 to leave out all monsters or control number of monsters using that switch with the moo2 shortcuts. /monsters=128 is max monsters where all systems is a monster.

have fun with save guys! 8)

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:15 am

Ave tech start, correct?
yes correct.
and uploaded my sublith gro save to http://www.geocities.com/kfizzle/sublith.zip just click on link and download
hmm, I playd up to andros, but the tolerant andros dont have effect for maxpop on my planets. So theyre not so well than I thought.

http://moo2.de-suuplappens.de/alex_dicl ... hw_t99.GAM
Last edited by ALEX|D on Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:16 pm

no tol droids only affect races that are either just aqua or lith, it doesnt affect races that are tol or sub. reason why it doesnt affect sub is because sub is a better pop modifier than tol, so it provides more pop, thats why it doesnt get tol droids increase in pop, it just gets the clean production.

nevertheless, sublith is a great pop/tech race. but if you want that droids effect, demolith is a much better choice, you can double up pop that way. even uniaqua +2prod does good with droids.

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siron
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Postby siron » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:56 pm

1500!
no tol droids only affect races that are either just aqua or lith, it doesnt affect races that are tol or sub. reason why it doesnt affect sub is because sub is a better pop modifier than tol, so it provides more pop, thats why it doesnt get tol droids increase in pop, it just gets the clean production.
This reasoning makes IMO no sense since a tol sub race profits from both multipliers. You can see the maxpop values in this post here:
http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005 ... ation.html

And BTW with this subrace there is this droidbug:
When the planet is full....but JUST by Gnolams you can actually move another droid to the planet.
For example take Alex save and look at planet at the top of his Colonies list:
Full of gnolams means (7/7). But then you can move further 5 droids there and you can have up to (12/7).

It is not just a display bug. Actually the correct sub tol value should be 9. (look at the table in the link.) But the sub and tol values are actually ADDED 7+5=12!

Same exploit works also with the second planet in his list. And even biospheres are counted twice!
12 are displayed for sub. When you abuse the bug you can add further 10 droids there (8 for med barren and 2 because of bios).
So you can have up to (22/12).

When you scrap the biospheres just (18/10) are possible.

I hope LB can fix this. Maxpop should work like a sub tol race. 9 and 16 (14+2) should be the correct maxpop values for these both planets.

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:42 pm

So you can have up to (22/12).
yes ... that its really bugged. :(


I played now with dicsublith grow lhw ... its near the same result.
But this time I got the 10% sci leader about ~t50.

http://moo2.de-suuplappens.de/alex_dics ... hw_t99.GAM

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KFizzle
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droid bug

Postby KFizzle » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:51 pm

the droid bug,

i remember that, that's where you could have like a 8 pop planet, but you could put in as much as like 50 people on that one planet.

or something like that. i forget how it works, but this bug pretty much allows super planets with hordes of androids.

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KFizzle
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another save

Postby KFizzle » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:37 am

here's another save:

univore +1prod save, got droids by turn 98, supers by turn 50, played it using alex's queue build system, and used siron's tactic of racing for supers first then expand.

of course by time i got supers, all my planets were full anyhow so i had to expand right away.

of course, if you expand since turn 1, and keep expanding constantly even singleton planets, chances are it would be easy to break 100 pop by turn 100 using this race, so far i got 90 by turn 98. thats a record for me using univore.

here's the save: http://www.geocities.com/kfizzle/univore.zip

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Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:54 am

How can you communicate while playing the game between just two players? The chat screen automatically goes away when both players end their turn so when would you get a chance to discuss anything?

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:54 pm

How can you communicate while playing the game between just two players?
Sometimes we use teamspeak during games.
of course, if you expand since turn 1, and keep expanding constantly even singleton planets, chances are it would be easy to break 100 pop by turn 100 using this race, so far i got 90 by turn 98. thats a record for me using univore.
This was a pretty good map for aquas. I gave uniaqua_prod2_lrhw a try and reachd droids on t98 luckily with ~12% or so.
140pop
~1k RP

http://moo2.de-suuplappens.de/uniaqua_p ... hw_t98.GAM


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