List of Rules for Playing (LAN-)MOO2 vs human Players

Discussion on how to play against other humans.
MadViper
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Joined:Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:40 am
List of Rules for Playing (LAN-)MOO2 vs human Players

Postby MadViper » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:28 am

We (some friends and myself) are playing orion2 for many years (some of us since release) against each other (or together). I tried out Internet Gaming vs unknown opponents as well, but it wasn't much fun, i met cheaters (for example naming their colonies "." and ".." to hide them in the galaxy, some kind of bugusing) and quitters (just left the game, when they think to loose) and many other bad players.
So we stick to use LAN Parties for Orion2-Gaming and they were much fun. Often the Time between the turns last longer than the turns itself, because several players discuss hidden alliances and War strategies in the next room before continuing their further play.
Between the games we began to invent Rules to preserve balanced and thrilling Games in the future.
We forbid lame-Tactics and other stuff we didn't like at all.
After many games we decided to invent some kind of rulebook to make the LAN-Games more interesting. The source of many of them are balance or prevent hassle Gaming-issues, others are just preferences where we decided that this way of gaming is more fun.

If someone wants to play moo2 vs friends, i warmly advise to use some or all of these roles for gaming, we experienced much fun using them and very exciting diversified games.


All Rules we invented have serious reasons i will try to explain.

1. Game Version:

- We use the really great newest VDC Mod (36h at the moment) The Game is just much(!) more fun then. Again a thx a lot to the creators of this mod.

viewtopic.php?t=613

We use two additional modifications:

- Setting nohousing switch to "+0 population bonus"

viewtopic.php?t=737

Reason: Balance issue, production-focused races gain more (=too much) benefit from producing housing and are therefore much stronger than non-production focused races. In Addition there is a serious bug in the housing formula which makes housing with 1 population extremely strong. So we decided to play without Housing. In Addition the turns are faster if the players don't neet to swap around their new growm population each round.

- (new and optional of course) Changing Galaxy generator to create huge Galaxies with fewer stars to speed up gameplay (less micromanagement-> faster turns with fewer colonies for all players)

viewtopic.php?t=146

Reason: Longer distances between stars make good engines and jumpgates more valuable and allow defending players to react if attacked. In dense galaxies you may often hop in 1 Turn between multiple enemy Systems leaving defending players little chance to defend himself. In Addition it is more difficult to win a 2 fronts-War if a strong player (wo is already on the way to win the Game) is attacked by several players at the same time.



2. Basic Gaming rules:

A) The Game is started with these Parameters:

VDCOR.exe /skipintro /noorion /hugestart /richstart /noreport /noscan /nohousing /planets=5

Reason:
- All players start with a quite nice Home System which allows them to develop fairly well.
- Orion ist left out as housing due to balance issues (too easy to get orion and his free techs which often leads to game winning)
- The Usage of the Report Button always was lame, because you can see the techs and spies of other players
- The removal of scanning enemy ships in combat adds the possibily of surprise Tactics which widens the design variations and the strategical and tactical depth.
- VDCOR.exe creates galaxies with more balanced systems (no empty systems anymore!) with more usable planets. This reduced the need of restarts due to unbalanced starting-situations.


B) A huge Galaxy with 36 Stars (See point 1, changing the Galaxy Generator) is created with 8 players, average Time and Galaxy Age at impossible mode, with activated antarans, random events and tactical combat.

C) Each player Chooses his favourite Race from a fixed list of Races:

Alkari: +2 Food, +1 Research, +0,5 MC, +50 Def, -25 Attack, -10 Groundcombat, +10 spy, Democracy, Large Home, Poor Home
Bulrathi: +80 growth, +2Food, +1Prod, +25 Attack, +20Groundcombat, Feudal, High-G, Large Home, Rich Home, Warlord
Darlok: +80 Growth, +2 Food, +1 Prod, spy+10, Feudal, Large Home, Rich Home, Telephatic, Stealthy Ships
Elerian: +2Food, +1Prod, +0,5MC, +35 Def, Feudal, Rich Home, Telepatic, Omniscient, Warlord
Gnolams: +80 Growth, +2Food, +1MC, +10 Spy, Dict, low-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Fantastic Trader, Lucky
Humanse: +2Food, -1 Prod, +1 Research, +1BC, Democracy, +10 Spy, Charismatic, Fanstastic Traders
Klackon: +50 Growth, +2Food, +2 Production, Unification, Large Home, Uncreative
Meklar: -0,5 Food, +2 Prod, -20 Defense, +25Attack, Dict, Cybernetic, Tolerant
Mrrshan: +50% Growth, +2Food, +1 Prod, +75Attack,+10 Groundcombat, Dict, Large Home, Poor Home, Warlord
Psilon: +2Food, +2Research, +0,5 MC, Dict, Low-G,Large Home, Rich Home, Creative
Sakkra: +100%Growth, +2food, +1Prod, Feudal,High-G, Subterranean, Large Home,Rich Home, Lucky
Silicoid: +50%Growth, -20 Defense, -10Groundcombat, Dict, High-G, Subterranean, Lithovore, Repulsive
Trilarian: +50% Growth, +1Food, +0,5 MC, Dict, Aquatic, Large Home, Trans dimensional

We use these Racepic List which was created from overlord:

viewtopic.php?t=613&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zctn776mm ... CESTUF.LBX

Reason: To use a fixed list of Races has several advantages:

1. The Races still maintain their individual feeling, as you can see the main statistics for each race is still as much as possible the same as in the Basic Game, they are just tweaked a bit to make them all useful and almost equal strong.

2. A fixed List is an Easy way to prevent too strong combinations without forbidding several pics at all. As you can see, almost all possible Pics are used at this list.

3. The Races all have their individual strengths and weaknesses and i think anybody is able to pick his or her favourite from them.

4. When you meet another race (KI or Player) you know, what you are up to. We think it destroys the game expierience if you all of a sudden meet telepathic Bulrathi, democratic Klackons, aquatic Silicoids or other WTF Races.

We decided to fill up the remaining Playerslots with KI Races. To play without KI Races if fewer as 8 human Players start together is considered boring. KI Races are really nasty at the beginning and give several Races the possibility to use special abilities (for example for some races it is fare more easy to spy KI Races out or to wipe them out at early state of the Game to grab more colonies)


During play these rules prevent hassle between the players and lead to more balanced play:

D) It is forbidden to produce or use android workers on Planets other than toxic.

Reason: Other balance Issue, android workers get full production boni from morale and are much stronger than normal population. If someone researches these workers builds them he gets too much production in short time. In Addition it values up toxic planets, they are of much more use in later games (fill them up with android workers and they produce quite well).

E) No Splitted Systems:
- Players are not allowed to place a colony in a System, where another human Player already placed a colony or an outpost.
- Players ARE allowed to place an outpost in a System, where another human Player already placed a colony or an outpost.

Reasons: Splitted Systems get in conflict with galactic peace, because they usually would lead to an early war. In Addition they are just pain in the ass for both players and can be used to harass other Players.


F) Galactic Peace:

Until Round XX (set before beginning of the Game, for example Round 100, depends on the players) there is a Galactic Peace Set.

- During Galactic Peace, Players are not allowed to attack colonies of other human Players.
- During Galactic Peace, Players are not allowed to declare War to other human Players.
- All Players ARE allowed to attack fleets and/or outposts of other players.

Reason: Removes Rush-Gaming whish destroys fun in x Ways (X way = Games with more than 2 players, for example 8 players): If the rush succeeds, the player gets big Advantage and usually wins the Game, if the rush fails, the Rushing-player has seriously misplayed his overall strategy and usually no chance of winning anymore.

Important: These Rules only affect the behaviour against human Players, the KI races are free to kill at anytime and anywhere!

G) Pacts:

If a non agression pact is set between Human players, the players are not allowed to attack Fleets, outposts or colonies at all.

Players are only allowed to attack colonies if they declare war at least 1 full round before. (there has to be "war" at the beginning of the round where the attack occurs).

If there was a non agression pact between players, the players have at least to wait for 5 full rounds before they may declare war to each other.

Reason: Players should use pacts wisely, they should be advantages and disadvantages to conclude a treaty with another player. They shall not be dishonored by breaking them. If you want to attack another player anytime, just don't accept a non agression pact or just declare war some rounds before.

These Rules only affect human Players as well, you may trick and kill KI Races as you want at anytime.

H) KI Races:

Players are not allowed to invade or mindcontrol KI-RACE Planets, unless the same planet was successfully invaded by the ki race before.
Players are allowed to destroy KI Race colonies and place an own colony at the same place.

Reason: Balance issue: It is much too strong and much too easy to early invade KI Planets to get their (often awesome strong) population. This kills the balance between the Players. If you want to invade other planets, wait until you can invade the Planets of other human players, of course these planets are allowed to invade if you are at war.

I) Players are not allowed to scrap invaded antaran ships for technologies.

Reason: Balance Issue: It it far too easy to get too strong techs by invading antaran ships and scrapping them.

3. In combat:

A) In combat the defender has the right for the last wait, See more about the Reason for these combat rule here:

viewtopic.php?t=1481

B) If the Game breaks down after a combat and the combat has to be played again, all players should try to replay the combat as it was in the 1. combat. If not possible, the players destropy manually the ships they lost in the 1. combat.


Feel free to ask or comment this list of rules, i appreciate any feedback.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:19 am

Hi,
Want to comment on several issues:
We use two additional modifications:

- Setting nohousing switch to "+0 population bonus"

Reason: Balance issue, production-focused races gain more (=too much) benefit from producing housing and are therefore much stronger than non-production focused races. In Addition there is a serious bug in the housing formula which makes housing with 1 population extremely strong. So we decided to play without Housing. In Addition the turns are faster if the players don't neet to swap around their new growm population each round.
I believe removing housing cuts many races, so they become ineffective, and additionally forces you to use +100 pop pick every time. Although it is possible to remove housing, vdc pick balance was specifically designed under condition of housing.

- Orion ist left out as housing due to balance issues (too easy to get orion and his free techs which often leads to game winning)
Orion Guardian has been strengthened significantly. Besides, it doesn't give antaran techs anymore. The only powerful thing, what it gives is Loknar leader together with his ship. So enabling Orion might be interesting.
- The removal of scanning enemy ships in combat adds the possibily of surprise Tactics which widens the design variations and the strategical and tactical depth.
This has two flaws: 1st - you lose tactical part of the game: since you can't see enemy ships' stats, you don't make right decisions in battle. And though blind battle could be fun, it is pointless, because it doesn't allow to use your tactical skill.
2nd - The noscan option is screwed - if you press 's' in combat you still can scan enemy ships.

C) Each player Chooses his favourite Race from a fixed list of Races:
If you play with the nohousing switch, some of the races from your list are dead since turn 1. You probably might want to reconsider your race set :)
D) It is forbidden to produce or use android workers on Planets other than toxic.
Reason: Other balance Issue, android workers get full production boni from morale and are much stronger than normal population. If someone researches these workers builds them he gets too much production in short time. In Addition it values up toxic planets, they are of much more use in later games (fill them up with android workers and they produce quite well).
Interesting setting, however, with such restriction evolutionary mutation becomes far more attractive. Hence this leaves droids for arti.

F) Galactic Peace:

Until Round XX (set before beginning of the Game, for example Round 100, depends on the players) there is a Galactic Peace Set.
There are two common rules in community atm-
'115 turns of peace' and '4 systems rule'. The last one means you can't attack a player before you have 4 systems.
H) KI Races:

Players are not allowed to invade or mindcontrol KI-RACE Planets, unless the same planet was successfully invaded by the ki race before.
Players are allowed to destroy KI Race colonies and place an own colony at the same place.
This is a common rule. The exception is when you were in war with human player who quit the game, then you are allowed to continue to invade his empire.

MadViper
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Postby MadViper » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am

I believe removing housing cuts many races, so they become ineffective, and additionally forces you to use +100 pop pick every time. Although it is possible to remove housing, vdc pick balance was specifically designed under condition of housing.
I have good news about this issue, the vdc pic-balance does very well without housing. The +pop Bonus is nice to have, but not usually necessary. Thanks to the vdc mod, cloning (and microbiotic) is quickly availiable which boosts the pop growth to an acceptable level. :wink:
Orion Guardian has been strengthened significantly. Besides, it doesn't give antaran techs anymore. The only powerful thing, what it gives is Loknar leader together with his ship. So enabling Orion might be interesting.
Thank you very much for this information. I didn't knew about this change. (we usually play without orion for a long time, even before the possibility of removing this star we decided not to attack orion at all)
This has two flaws: 1st - you lose tactical part of the game: since you can't see enemy ships' stats, you don't make right decisions in battle. And though blind battle could be fun, it is pointless, because it doesn't allow to use your tactical skill.
2nd - The noscan option is screwed - if you press 's' in combat you still can scan enemy ships.
I didn't knew that the noscan option is not working correct. We will still keep this option and just decide not to use it. I stick to the opinion that the removal of scanning increases the tactical depth, because you have more options to lure your enemy into tactical traps during combat if they cannot scan your ships. On the other hand you have to move much more careful, because you never know what awaits, until your enemy reveals his combat strategy, which also reduces the advanage of the ships which higher initiative. I think that the player with higher initiative ships has too much of an advantage if he can scan all enemy ships and then plan his best possible move, before his enemy can react at all.

Of course you may only use this rule, if you trust all players (thus it may be not useful for internetgaming vs unknown opponents)
If you play with the nohousing switch, some of the races from your list are dead since turn 1. You probably might want to reconsider your race set :)
Can you explain, which of the Races in the list do you consider as not playable (and why):?: I will then try to explain how to develop with them to compensate their seemingly disadvantages and how to use their advantages.

There are two common rules in community atm-
'115 turns of peace' and '4 systems rule'. The last one means you can't attack a player before you have 4 systems.
Ah, nice to know that :)
This is a common rule. The exception is when you were in war with human player who quit the game, then you are allowed to continue to invade his empire.
For inet Gaming, this rule if of course reasonable and should be added.

We invented a rule (i forgot to mention) that quitting or playing without winning-strategy (for example donating all techs to another player without reason etc.) is considered lame-play and will result in expulsion for further games. All Players have to fight to the last blood-drop, even if you are on the unavoidable way to loose.

Of course you need this rule of you play vs unknown players. I already wrote, that "quitters" are one reason, why we prefered playing vs friends we can count on.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:57 am

I have good news about this issue, the vdc pic-balance does very well without housing. The +pop Bonus is nice to have, but not usually necessary. Thanks to the vdc mod, cloning (and microbiotic) is quickly availiable which boosts the pop growth to an acceptable level.
They are available rather quickly for tech races, for other races not so much.
Can you explain, which of the Races in the list do you consider as not playable (and why)Question I will then try to explain how to develop with them to compensate their seemingly disadvantages and how to use their advantages.
In general races without population capacity modifier and pop growth picks will be under disadvantage, since the only way to grow pop will be counting on natural growth bonuses. Before you get to clones you need to grow pop somehow. This is initial 50-60 turns, Some races from your list have better odds to grow more pop early and get for clones faster. However, your race set is full of blitz races and how well they will do is questionable. I believe on huge map they are dead, especially if you play with the rule of no conquering AI. So, in a long-term game, I believe only few races have potential:
1) Silicoid;
2) Sakkra;
3) Gnolam
4) Maybe Psilon due to droids.
I stick to the opinion that the removal of scanning increases the tactical depth, because you have more options to lure your enemy into tactical traps during combat if they cannot scan your ships.
Like whether you have emg missiles or not? :) Well, I believe the only outlet here will be that indirect weapons such as torpedoes will recieve extra advantage and beams with good hitting ability will be more in demand. Fighters, missiles and compressors will be under disadvantage.
Rather you destroy early tactical part than improve it.
On the other hand you have to move much more careful, because you never know what awaits, until your enemy reveals his combat strategy, which also reduces the advanage of the ships which higher initiative. I think that the player with higher initiative ships has too much of an advantage if he can scan all enemy ships and then plan his best possible move, before his enemy can react at all.
The truth is that initiative doesn't give that big advantage until you have adopted beams as a main impact force, for what you need a good computer. And after you have beams, you almost don't need to scan enemy ships. Just shoot them one after another and that's all.

MadViper
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Postby MadViper » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:43 am

The Silicoid, Gnolam and Sakkra Races indeed have a strong civil development.

What do you think about this new Race-List. We decided to alter the values of the mentioned races and removed their pop growth boni. In addition we altered the Darlok Race to be less effective in spying and invading (removed telepatic) other races. Meklar got new economy boosting racepics , because they suffered from too slow development in early Game.

Unchanged:
Alkari: +2 Food, +1 Research, +50 Def, -25 Attack, -10 Groundcombat, +10 spy, Democracy, Large Home, Poor Home
Bulrathi: +80 growth, +2Food, +1Prod, +25 Attack, +20Groundcombat, Feudal, High-G, Large Home, Rich Home, Warlord
Elerian: +2Food, +1Prod, +0,5MC, +35 Def, Feudal, Rich Home, Telepatic, Omniscient, Warlord
Humans: +2Food, -1 Prod, +1 Research, +1BC, Democracy, Large Home, Charismatic, Fanstastic Traders
Klackon: +50 Growth, +2Food, +2 Production, Unification, Large Home, Uncreative
Psilon: +2Food, +2Research, +0,5 MC, Dict, Low-G,Large Home, Rich Home, Creative
Trilarian: +50% Growth, +1Food, +0,5 MC, Dict, Aquatic, Large Home, Trans dimensional

Altered:
Darlok: +50 Growth, +2 Food, +1 Prod, +10 Groundcombat, +20 spy, Feudal, Large Home, Rich Home, Stealthy Ship, Transdimensional
Gnolam: +2Food, +1MC, +10 Spy, Dict, low-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Artefact Home, Charismatic, Fantastic Trader, Lucky
Sakkra: +2food, +1Prod, +0,5 MC, Feudal,Aquatic, Subterranean, Large Home, Rich Home, Lucky
Silicoid: -20 Defense, Dict, High-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Lithovore, Repulsive
Meklar: -0,5 Food, +2 Prod, -10 Groundcombat, Dict, Rich Home, Cybernetic, Tolerant, Fantastic Traders
Mrrshan: +50% Growth, +2Food, +1 Prod, -20 Defense, +75Attack, Dict, Rich Home, Fantastic Traders, Warlord


Reasons:
Darlok: Spy +30 was too strong, it was almost impossible to defend against their spies and they were almost immune to spying.

Gnolam, Sakkra, Silicoid: Pop growth + Subterran leads to very high growth values which leads to a too strong civil development in comparison to the other Races of the list. To remove the growth boni slows them down a bit in early state of the Game.

Meklar: A rich home increases the early development and Fantastic Traders is very nice for later civil development, in addition Meklar don't need to use taxes at all, because they are able to get of money quickly by building trade goods on already fully developed planets. This speeds up the development of new claimed planets.
Mrrshan: Altered Homeworld to Rich Home and added Fantastic Traders to improve civil development. Removed groundcombat bonus and added ship Defense Malus.

Edit: Forgot to mention the last changes to Mrrshan Race.
Last edited by MadViper on Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:02 am

You slowed down the races, which seemed to be fast enough, but I will repeat my colclusion I gave in VDC thread that the races with no capacity modifiers will lose long term competition to the races ,which include capacity modifiers, unless you have possibility to attack immediately as the game starts. Provided that you play a huge map and no AI conquest, those race are all dead.

PS. if you want me to update your list, I could do it in a few days.

MadViper
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Postby MadViper » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:26 am

I Already wrote it in the VDC Tread, but i think it fits here as well:

The conclusion, that Races without pop-capacity-modifiers are chanceless in long term games is correct, but written at the overall situation, that housing is used. With housing, races with pop-capacity-modifiers are able to fill their planets quite quickly and benefit from very high production and researching values. Races without pop-capacity-modifiers are not able to compensate this and will loose in civil development (=pop values, science values, production values) and therefore the Game.

But don't make the mistake to carry over this Rule (pop Capacity always wins against non pop capacity in longer games) in non-housing Games.

The Strategy Guide from Cybersaber is a great and almost perfect piece of work, but the civil-development-strategic content is written for housing-Games only.

If you play without housing, the overall balance about this issue changes greatly (one reason we prefer to play without it). If you play without housing, the strength of pop capacity modifiers is greatly reduced, because you simply are not able to fill your big planets with pop that quickly as it would be possible with housing.
Mostly the Game is over, before the players are able to fill their planets completely, even players without pop-capacity-modifiers cant fill up their even smaller planets.

In midgame situations of non-housing Games, races with pop-capacity-modifiers don't have more population than races without capacity modifiers and equal overall growth values (*) if the players continue to expand and spread their population in the same way.

*) A subterranean population with +0 growth grows roughly as fast as a non subterranean Population with +50% growth due to the difference in planet Size values if you play without housing. Tolerant and Aquatic grow somehow less but have other advantages. (no pollution for tolerant and early Gaia/terran Planets with more food and few planets with much more space for Aquatic)

Races with pop capacity modifiers still have the advantage, that they can delay the necessary use the Terraforming some turns to do something else, and they can empty bad and fill up good planets in early state of the Game (for example empty some poor planets and fill up some other urich planet to produce more quickly). Races without these modifiers have to use Terraforming quite early and therefore have to research for it quite quickly. Also they cannot specialize their planets that much and swap around their population as capacity modifier Races are able. But if the non-capacity-modifier races develop well, they won't be back off in population numbers.

Only in very late Game Situations (far above turn 200) when races without pop-size-modifiers have grown their terraformed (+ already Gaia turned+advanced city planning) Planets to full population, they would have a disadvantage to subterranean races in pop size, because these races would be able to grow even more pop. Aquatic and tolerant races loose their advantage completely after the Gaia Transformation is researched. It Raises the Size of non-pop-capicity-races to an equal level.

But this is not a serious issue, because usually the game is already over, far before the written above very late game situation occurs.

If pop-capacity-modifier races research Terraforming quite early, they won't have an mentionable advantage from it. If they do it, they simply have gigantic but still empty planets.

Of course increasing the planet size additional increases the pop growth, but it may be not worth the cost (if you focus on terraformung too early, you may lack expansion and other necessary Technologies and get fewer planets at all).
I appreciate the offer to alter the racepic-Value-LBX File for me, but thanks to the great tools mentioned in the ocl_improved tread i already was able to alter the values myself.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:36 am

I appreciate the offer to alter the racepic-Value-LBX File for me, but thanks to the great tools mentioned in the ocl_improved tread i already was able to alter the values myself.
So, you made a new racestuf.lbx? Could you upload it somewhere and give a link?

MadViper
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Postby MadViper » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:41 pm

So, you made a new racestuf.lbx? Could you upload it somewhere and give a link?
Alkari: +2 Food, +1 Research, +50 Def, -25 Attack, -10 Groundcombat, +10 spy, Democracy, Large Home, Poor Home
Bulrathi: +80 growth, +2Food, +1Prod, +25 Attack, +20Groundcombat, Feudal, High-G, Large Home, Rich Home, Warlord
Darlok: +50 Growth, +2 Food, +1 Prod, +10 Groundcombat, +20 spy, Feudal, Large Home, Rich Home, Stealthy Ship, Transdimensional
Elerian: +2Food, +1Prod, +0,5MC, +35 Def, Feudal, Rich Home, Telepatic, Omniscient, Warlord
Gnolam: +2Food, +1MC, +10 Spy, Dict, low-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Artefakt Welt, Charismatic, Fantastic Trader, Lucky
Humanse: +2Food, -1 Prod, +1 Research, +1BC, Democracy, Large Home, Charismatic, Fanstastic Traders
Klackon: +50 Growth, +2Food, +2 Production, Unification, Large Home, Uncreative
Meklar: -0,5 Food, +2 Prod, -10 Groundcombat, Dict, Rich Home, Cybernetic, Tolerant, Fantastic Traders
Mrrshan: +50% Growth, +2Food, +1 Prod, -20 Defense, +75Attack, Dict, Rich Home, Fantastic Trader, Warlord
Psilon: +2Food, +2Research, +0,5 MC, Dict, Low-G,Large Home, Rich Home, Creative
Sakkra: +2food, +1Prod, +0,5 MC, Feudal,Aquatic, Subterranean, Large Home, Rich Home, Lucky
Silicoid: -20 Defense, Dict, High-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Lithovore, Repulsive
Trilarian: +50% Growth, +1Food, +0,5 MC, Dict, Aquatic, Large Home, Trans dimensional


The new File should be here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?b1uzubz7l7au5fi

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:20 pm

Well, Gnolam, Sakkra and Silicoid keep the leadership in this setting too.

MadViper
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Postby MadViper » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:54 am

Well, Gnolam, Sakkra and Silicoid keep the leadership in this setting too.
Did you test some kind of benchmark with this Racelist or is this just a kind of experience + gut instinct to get to this conclusion?

When i remember the history of your last Games, the Game-Win-Racelist of our last 8 XWay Games reads this:

Alkari: 0 Wins

Bulrathi: 1 Win (lucky start with some rich-HG planets and WH to KI Races leads to quick kill of those KI-races and very fast expansion into their Systems leads to victory)

Darlok: 1 Win (lucky Stealings of the researched civil Techs of other players and quick expansion + build of huge invisible Fleet leads to a kind of steamroll Win)

Elerians: 1 Win (Fast expansion with 2 Diamond planets and 2 MC Leader, Fast destruction of 2 KI Races and invasion of Human Player Sakkra Systems with huge fleet after gal-peace ended leads to victory)

Gnolam: 1 Win (Lucky Start with really 5 nice Systems leads to superior pop and Production, other human players had Problems to expand)

Humans: 1 Win (great start with 10 good Planets in 2 Systems leads to quick research development without building colony ships for weapon Techs and Fast destruction of 2 KI Races in a corner, afterwards massive expansion into the emptied Corner leads to superior System amount -> Victory)

Klackons: 0 Wins
Meklars: 0 Wins
Mrrshan: 0 Wins
Psilon: 0 Wins
Sakkra: 0 Wins

Silicoid: 2 Wins (1. Good start with some rich HG Planets, showdown against allied strong Bulrathi and Meklars, narrow victory, but still victory. 2. Good start with splinter colony, other Human-played-races had serious problems against uncommon strong KI - KI quickly destroyed one human (gnolam) Player and cornered another (Mrrshan) - leads to superior System Amount and fast victory)

Trilarian: 1 Win (lucky start with many wet planets, strong civil development, research of many groundcombat techs, invasion of enemy ships and very lucky scrapping of these ships leads to superior Combat tech with transd-fleet, which were able to successfully invade enemy ships before they can react at all-> Victory)

Until now i can't see a "Leading Race", all seems quite Even. Much depends on luck in Gal Settings or better strategy. But i will continue to write down the Winning-statistic and a short description of each Game.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:27 pm

Well, Gnolam, Sakkra and Silicoid keep the leadership in this setting too.
Did you test some kind of benchmark with this Racelist or is this just a kind of experience + gut instinct to get to this conclusion?
Yeah, you could call it gut instinct or experience :) . I just see that these races will grow substantially larger pop quite quickly, before other races are capable to attack them. Hence they will research 2 or 3 times quicker and get techs, which will offset other races natural bonuses and more techs which other races won't be able to tech due to slow and poor development.
If you wish I can give you a master class game.

MadViper
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Joined:Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:40 am

Postby MadViper » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:54 am

If you wish I can give you a master class game.
I don't understand this exactly, what do you mean with this?

Do you want to create a bunch of Savegames (i.e. all 10 turns) with Races from the List to show the differences in their civil development? I would be very curious about it. I Bet there would be much to learn from it.

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Overlord2
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Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Postby Overlord2 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:50 am

If you wish I can give you a master class game.
Do you want to create a bunch of Savegames (i.e. all 10 turns) with Races from the List to show the differences in their civil development? I would be very curious about it. I Bet there would be much to learn from it.
No, those blitz race are not interesting to me. I was proposing a game, where I could show, how much pop capacity races will dominate over no capacity races.

MadViper
Posts:46
Joined:Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:40 am

Postby MadViper » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:01 am

If you wish I can give you a master class game.
Do you want to create a bunch of Savegames (i.e. all 10 turns) with Races from the List to show the differences in their civil development? I would be very curious about it. I Bet there would be much to learn from it.
No, those blitz race are not interesting to me. I was proposing a game, where I could show, how much pop capacity races will dominate over no capacity races.
I eager to learn, how these capacity-races will dominate over the non capacity Races in civil development. Just choose a Race with cap-modifier and start a Test-Game. In my own tests in played the Races to Turn 120, (to play further only against KI is not helpful to compare the civil development, because after this turn the Galactic Peace ends and the Players may blow each other to oblivion). I would appreciate a Turn 120 Save with one of these Races and a description of the strategical development to develop well. (researchorder etc.)

These Races have cap-modifiers:

Gnolam: +2Food, +1MC, +10 Spy, Dict, low-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Artefakt Welt, Charismatic, Fantastic Trader, Lucky
Meklar: -0,5 Food, +2 Prod, -10 Groundcombat, Dict, Rich Home, Cybernetic, Tolerant, Fantastic Traders
Sakkra: +2food, +1Prod, +0,5 MC, Feudal,Aquatic, Subterranean, Large Home, Rich Home, Lucky
Silicoid: -20 Defense, Dict, High-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Lithovore, Repulsive
Trilarian: +50% Growth, +1Food, +0,5 MC, Dict, Aquatic, Large Home, Trans dimensional

These Settings are usually used für the Games to be comparable:

Game Start:

VDCOR.exe /skipintro /noorion /hugestart /richstart /noreport /noscan /nohousing /planets=5

Galaxysize: Medium
Difficulty: Impossible
Players: 8
Tactical Combat: on
Antarans: on
Random Events: on
Galaxy Age: average
Starting Age: average
Version Used: VDC 36h with modified "vdcor.exe" to create a huge galaxy with 36 Systems, if "medium galaxy" is chosen.

viewtopic.php?t=146

Housing to +0

viewtopic.php?t=737

A completely modified vdcor.exe (36h) can be found here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?0wc79pvv47e9ds9


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