Race pick strategies and game settings

[ALEX|D]

If there any mod to balance Democracy against Unification it should reduce the pick cost to 6 and eliminate the -10 spy defense.

There´s already a mod
http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005 ... od-b4.html

The only downfall I can see is Democracy has a (-) to spying.

This race isn´t compareable with the usual uni prodraces. Only race which can is demolith.

Demoaqua isn´t a good choice imho. I would say if demo then demolith or it will suck on food problems.

[KFizzle]

Having to defend against spying further set me back and I was unable to expand quickly enough to keep up with the typical production races.

i think in a regular straight up setup game, where the game is dominated by production races or uni races, the only other races that has any sort of chances is litho races.

litho races can out tech uni races, but not only that, most litho races, can typically build 1-3 bbs by turn 100 easily with the right techs. so they can fare better against uni races.

other day, i was playing unisub +2prod, with large hw, i found a 2nd system with two large 10 pop urich hg planets, i made 3 bbs by turn 90, and i could had easily built another 2 like that, if it were not for my ship points draining all the money out of my empire. i was -100bc per turn on my income at 0 taxes even after building starbases at most places.

i think with a uni warlord race, with the right planets, you can easily build 5 bbs by turn 100.

[KFizzle]

just proving my point about warlord races:

check out this save:
http://www.geocities.com/kfizzle/save9.zip

if you ever choose to go battle, it doesnt always seem that bad, and the better equipped you are in battle, the better the chances of winning. this is the reason why i love warlord so much.

best part about warlord, is that not only does it give veteran ships, if you hold on to your ships, which fairly easy to do with warlord since you have extra ship points all the time, is that you can have elite crew. just train all your ships on a multi-planet systems with space acs built everywhere.

and just imagine this, i only used abundant planets for my save, i chose not to use rich/urich planets for this save. i also even had to op at beginning to find my natives first, then the gaia next.

and like i said:
most litho races can easily build 1-3 bbs by turn 100 easily, so they can put up a fight if they have to if anyone decides to attack down a wh.

[Matthew]

Warlord seems like it would do well when you have wormholes and can blitz early in the game using mostly DDs. You can outnumber your enemy and have better crews to fight. After a while you might too far fall behind in production and tech which might not be great in a 4way.

[Dustin]

Demolith +1 Ind vs. Cash Race comparison

Cash race gets an additional 1.5 BC/pop/turn
The DemoLith advantage frees up your farmers (in this comparison I will say that the farmers freed up turn into workers)
In the very beginning that is 1.5x8 = 12BC/pop/turn converted into prdouction at a 3BC/prod rate gives you 4 production or 1 worker equalivant. The Demolith +1 Ind would have had 3 farmers each turned into workers producting about 12 production.
Since 12 > 4, in the very beginning Demolith +1Ind has the advantage!

Later, with Soil Enrichment, it will free up enough workers from the Cash race to produce 4 production extra production because you have freed up atleast a farmer, but; however 12 is still greater than 8.

Even Later, with Spaceport, the Cash race in comparison to the Demolith +1Ind will have an extra 0.5BC/pop/turn generated from the Starport or about 1prod for every 6 population giving it enough to almost catch up to the Demolith +1Ind race, but the Demolith +1 Ind race has already won the beginning.

And Finally with Stock Exchanges, the Cash race should catch upto the Demolith +1Ind because you'll have an extra 1BC/pop/turn. So, taking the inital example of 8 population, you'd have a total of 3BC/pop/turn extra total with everything giving you 24 BCs or 8 production. Note 12 is still greater than 8. However, with Soil Enrichment, you have only 2 farmers out of the 8 total population. So, 8=8.

But, with Aquatic giving you the extra population maximum per world, and all else being equal, in the very late game the Cash Race is worthwhile, but if the Demolith +1ind has Cloning Centers, it could be a toss up!

I can see why Demolith +1ind is prefered because of the beginning and even in the end, the Cash race has just caught up to you.

[Dustin]

Here is an idea:
Assuming Auquatic isnt a good pick, and you have Soil Enrichment,
trying this instead,

Taxes +1BC (8 )
Democracy (7)
Science (3)
Rich Home (2)

I was just thinking, if you can get a better conversion rate like lets say 2BC/prod and buy most of that production on a Rich Home World because it can produce half way to stuff quicker, (its a good idea to spend your money), then the 1.5BC/pop from the Tax pick would give you 12 BCs for every 8 population, effictively = to 6 production/turn. If you have an average of 2 workers per 8 population (I know its better to shift between science and workers), that would be 5+5+8(clean production)= 18 total production.

compared to a Lithovore (10) Science (3) Democracy (7) race
which would give have 3 extra workers instead of farmers and the same amount in science. It would be 3industryx5workers = 15 Production.

So, in conclusion, maybe Aquatic isnt such a great pick (if you get Soil Enrichment)!

Is Rich Home(2) and Taxes (8 ) better than Lithovore(10)? You decide.

[Dustin]

Here is a different idea, comparing production races, which is better?
1. Democracy (7) and Taxes (5) or
2. Unification (6) and Industry +2 (6)

Assuming that they both have Rich Home(2) and Subterranean (6)
with the standard -10 picks

The first one is like the cash race, stores up production and then buys it, but researches faster.
The second one is good at building things immediately without the need for buying it and has 1 extra worker (not farming) which he may allocate to science.

[KFizzle]

in generality, uni races will always do better than demo races.

if you have uni +2prod compared to demo +2cash, the uni will do much better, because when the uni race houses theyll add that extra production into the housing build, where as demo races with cash cant add that extra production or cash in housing rates, which means demo houses slow all the time. and theres no button anywhere to buy houses.

even then, if it were not for the food bonus in getting uni, demo would had been a much better choice. uni thrives by expansion and popping, while as demo thrives by out-teching.

the reason why uni always does better in teching than a demo race, is mostly because uni pops faster than general. they always have more pop available to do extra teching and extra build, what not. demo races never have enough of pop.

all the more reasons why demolith is the best demo race.

truth is:
demo aqua cash would be the best demo race, considering they build fastest and has the ability to expand fastest, but the only reason why it doesnt do as well, like i said before, is cause it techs slow.

demolith is the best demo race, simply because it techs fastest or faster than any other demo race. and it will always have a pop advantage, and it can get rid of it pop limit issue by either doubling pop by getting androids or by getting gaia transformation.

otherwise demo aqua cash would had been the better race.

[KFizzle]

Warlord seems like it would do well when you have wormholes and can blitz early in the game using mostly DDs. You can outnumber your enemy and have better crews to fight. After a while you might too far fall behind in production and tech which might not be great in a 4way.

reason why i like warlord so much, is because you can make bigger fleet than general races. bigger fleet means more firepower.

you would fall behind in tech if you go battle techs first, but by turn 100, you have enough pop to get supers in 5-6 turns if you wanted. even then, if you go battle techs first, chances are youre prolly either defending, but better chances are youre trying to double empire by taking over someone else.

if you take over someone else completley by turn 100, theres a good chance people might just give you the game.

and just because you always take warlord, doesnt mean you have to blitz someone right away or anything, you could always use warlord to make elite ships, while building empire.

i won battle other day, i was warlord, with trits, c3s, and subspace comm fusions, against someone else with zorts, mercs, and regular fusions. only reason why i won battle, was because i had veteran/elite fleet crew, and the other guy couldnt shoot anything at me. this was late in game around turn 150, never had any battle before that at all. otherwise game crashed, and we didnt want to continue.

warlord increases both ship off and ship def simultaneously, and with space acs, you can keep on increasing your ships ship off/def.

[ALEX|D]

Demo races cant compare with usual uni races in case of expanding and building ... dont try that !

Demo has his advantage in researching. Usually expanding and building is better than researching, expect u try to tech andros asap. With andros u can build super workers ... the fastest way to tech andros is demolitharti.

So a demo cash one or whatever will mostly be crushed easily by an uni race.

---

Warlord is fun yes ... but I like transd more !

[Matthew]

I played this race against the AI and it worked.

Feudalism
-Ship Defense
-GC
Aquatic
+2 Production
Warlord

I used Science buildings for generating research and had built a large fleet of bbs by turn 110. I was also getting good leaders very quickly. Most of them came with multiple bonuses. The Impossible setting gave one of the AI's a really strong production race pick. It took me a while to finally defeat them and I lost a lot of ships in the process. By the end of the game my RP per turn was in the thousands. Won by defeating the Antarans.

[ALEX|D]

I played this race against the AI and it worked.

Near all races work vs AI´s !

On what turn did u get rlabs ?

[Dustin]

After doing the math on:
1. Democracy (7), Taxes (5) and
2. Unification (6), Industry +2 (6)

and then giving them both Rich Home(2) and Subterranean (6)
with the Standard -10 picks.

I figure that the 1st race would have an extra 1.25BC/pop = 10BC per 8 pop, initially. The 10BCs converted into production would be 5 production/turn.
Looking at that, 50 turns into the game, that would be 250 production or enough to buy half of a colony ship.
The 2nd Race could produce stuff straight out about twice as quickly, assuming the 1 extra worker it has from farming goes straight to pollution. so it could produce the Colony Ship without the need for buying half of it and it would come out the same time.
Now if you also build other stuff like Colony Bases, Autofactories, and Research Labs, then the 2nd race has the advantage because it can produce it straight out about twice as quickily.
Comparing Research, the first race only comes out slightly ahead. At turn #1, the first race has 18 science whereas the second has 15 -- a 3 science difference. And the 2nd race frees another farmer sooner than the 1st race does, making up the 3 science difference not so far in the future. Only with Soil Enrichment does the science race maintain its research edge early on and you have to produce stuff too, it cant be staight out research.

So, my concusion is this: comparing balanced races to production ones, the production one comes ahead using a balanced strategy. The 2nd race is greater than the 1st!

[Matthew]

I played this race against the AI and it worked.

Near all races work vs AI´s !

On what turn did u get rlabs ?

It does take a while to get the initial research labs up. Before going for them you would first build all your cbases and have your housing going so that would help some. The research labs are atleast 25 turns into the game vs. 15 for most production races.

You do get cheaper colony ships so if you have a nice corner you might build one before starting research to gain population advantage.

Feudalism is the underdog government if it is up against a human opponent playing Uni. You would need to blitz early to have any chance at all. It does make for a challenging game vs. the AI because of the research disadvantage.

It might succeed better vs a demolith or democash race because of the +15% Spying advantage. There's no way they could stop you from stealing tech and sabotaging them.

[ALEX|D]

The research labs are atleast 25 turns into the game vs. 15 for most production races.

After I build cbases, I need up to ~t25-t35 to get rlabs as usual ... !