Autolab Leader is comming muhc too early - balance issue.

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gmbarak
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Autolab Leader is comming muhc too early - balance issue.

Postby gmbarak » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:30 pm

Hi, I would like to propose a balance fix,

I usually play in imposible 300% difficulty and I must individually kill
all other races myself, I must obtain all technologies (this means psilon
must be one of the AI players, and I capture antares ships and take
technology from them before capturing orion). I won a few games
with this demad, but the thing that is ruining it for me is the leader
that comes with Autolab. this gives the alien races unmatchable
advantage, I think that this leader should come only in much later
stages of the game or non at all, this Autolab for free is a serious
balance issue, that player that gets this technology early in the game
would 85% win.

so I would like to ask that it would be fixed in the patch or at least
be an optional change.

Thanks,
Barak.

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:08 am

I have other proposition for you. Join our community and start playing against humans. That's much more fun and challenging :)...About the autolabs guy : there are many leaders who, found/joined early, unbalance the game. But is that a reason to get rid of them in any way?.... Maybe yes...if not found by me :lol:

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siron
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Postby siron » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:54 am

I never had this guy in a MP game. And I play charismatic quite often. And if he would appear I would think it's only fair for risking charismatic.

What turn does he appear exactly? (Average tech level)

Anyway, I consider Kirsus or Chug who can be found on map a bigger problem.

gmbarak
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Postby gmbarak » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:14 am

Hi!

Thanks for your replies,
The leader name is Mentox,
and he comes at 3514.0 at pre-warp.
at this time, it's hardly possible to research autolab,
even if you go for it with everything you've got.

just a question, have you tried Galactic civilizations?
I haven't tried it, but from what it looks you would
probably like it if you liked Moo2.

Barak.

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siron
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Postby siron » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:50 pm

You can easily have autolabs by that turn. I recommend to read some of the guides here:
viewtopic.php?p=137#137

Most MOO2 players are not impressed by GalCiv, since it had no tactical combat. Furthermore, MP is missing there.

Buddenbrook
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Postby Buddenbrook » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:33 pm

If you think that Autolab or some other tech in the game (colony, or ship combat) is too strong you can either remove it from the game, remove it from the leader or alter it's bonus value.

Autolab is a case in point. If it came later in the tree, or was mid/late game leader only tech, or it's bonus value was altered, it would make the currently superior prod/pop races a bit weaker.

Autolab's bonus value you can alter @ 16568A (1.31 dos version).

You may want to do the same to other techs too if they bother you. Download Lord Brazen's program for extracting the debug information from the 1.31 exe, to get a clue where to look at in the file.

gmbarak
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Postby gmbarak » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:16 pm

Thanks!

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rewster1
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Postby rewster1 » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:37 am

Hello forum!
I was wondering about the charismatic pick actually. I've been testing it a bit recently, and occasionally in a SP game I'll get Mentox by turn 66. But I'm just hitting the turn button, so I don't know if building up your empire changes things.
I've also gotten Knossos by turn 12(!), and the Terraforming guy in the 30s, and the "telepathic training" girl at random times.
So you can get some very nice techs pretty early (OK, in MP I guess Dimensional portal is pointless... but still.)
I've also gotten Federation, and possibly some others I've forgotten, all before turn 150. I should write these things down.

What I was really wondering about is how charismatic compares to the "famous" ability... would it be approximately equal to a say, level 3 famous leader? Is there a way to check this out in one of the LBX files?

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TheDS
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Postby TheDS » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:12 am

Autolab at any time isn't a problem, because of these things called SPIES, and this other thing called TECH TRADING. If you are the benefactor, then you can trade it to everyone else, andif you're not, then you can use your spies to get it and so can everyone else. In the mean time, yeah that person gets an advantage, and Charismatic has a slightly higher chance of getting it, which is what it's for.

You can't win every game, otherwise, where's the fun?
Why do they get to attack me without war being declared, but I can't do the same?

c'g~
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Try to play with EXPa Mod by c'g~

Postby c'g~ » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:22 am

Autolab at any time isn't a problem, because of these things called SPIES, and this other thing called TECH TRADING. If you are the benefactor, then you can trade it to everyone else, andif you're not, then you can use your spies to get it and so can everyone else. In the mean time, yeah that person gets an advantage, and Charismatic has a slightly higher chance of getting it, which is what it's for.
Spies isn’t so effective like U think:
- boring original Tech Tree just leaves no choice for players, thus everyone just go the same Tech path every time, therefore all opponents get the same Spy Techs – thus the same Spy power (and what would U stealing if all opponents would have the same Technologies like U, huh?)
- usually U don’t have much Spies, because all Ur prod go to Colony Ships/Bases/Fleet/Building
- in fact 3 of 4 governments have additional % of spy defense, so even if U will put Ur spies to Steal technology U will be very lucky if U got at least ONE Tech (I don’t even mention useful things)
And Tech Trading is banned in MP games

About early Autolabs:
Yes, I think it’s a misbalance, so I fixed it in my -- ------EXPa MOD--------
(U can find it here: viewtopic.php?t=559)

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TheDS
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Postby TheDS » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:53 pm

We don't all play the same way. I've tried several different routes lately, just to see what they do. Way back, a friend of mine complained vehemently that even when he's maxed out on spy abilities, he can't seem to do anything. I never used to do much with spies, somewhat noticing their relative uselessness, but recently I tried a max spy build and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't need to do much in the way of research to keep up. (Of course, relations went to the toilet, but it was manageable.)

So I feel that, if it wasn't just a perception problem, then LB probably fixed whatever the problem with spies was.
Why do they get to attack me without war being declared, but I can't do the same?

c'g~
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Postby c'g~ » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:02 pm

We don't all play the same way.
If you want to win against a real human in MP, you will play the same in original MoO2 each time. If U want to play variously – play with modifications


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