repulsive spies

[dirt-bag]

imo, repulsive races should not be able to spy offensively, because they are...well repulsive. or at the very least have a huge hit to offensive spying and by the same token a small bonus to agents.

mebbe we could have an /ugly switch!

the switch wish list is getting rather long isnt it...

[PK]

hehe what about /dirtbag=nasty /dirtbag=blitz /dirtbag=nice or /dirtydb

PK

[Cybersaber]

ROFLMAO!! OK, PK, that was pretty good! Dirt, he counts coup on you. But back to the idea. If Repulsive's could not spy offensively, this would indeed make Repulsive a bit more of a negative than it is now, and since it is almost a freebie now, that would be good. On the other hand, I would prefer to see LB's limited time used for things that really enhance the main thrust of the game. /Noreport was brilliant. Killing the empty frigate gambit would be very welcome. In the meantime, I can live with some Repulsive spies...

[ALEX|D]

Rep_Spys should get a offence_spy_malus about 5-20% .... or so.

[PK]

Let us remember that we all play repulsive in our games. And spy system in moo is already wierd. Noone knows when or what u will spy or not. If we will make repulsive spies weaker then a part of spying fun will be gone.

[dirt-bag]

all the more reason to reduce repulsive spying capabilities. repulsive is too easy to take with virtually no drawbacks.

[PK]

repulsive is easy - yea, uni is easy too, other picks are easy also ... but should we change them going by this logic?

[StepNRazor]

I think the race would use plastic surgery or perhaps obtains other race spies by some method of either threat or payment.

[Logan]

Spies are spies. And anyway, repulsive doesn't nessesarily mean they're ugly.
Spies steal things by sneaking in and nicking off without being seen (or at least being caught). Appearance has nothing to do with it.

[Brent15]

Well, I must say that blending into a society is a definite part of a spies ability to infiltrate. I would also agree that its not much of a stretch to say that being repulsive to other races would effect this ability.

Largely, I agree with Cybersaber. I would like to see Lord Brazens next patch out sooner rather than later.

However, I feel like alot of this game is being lost in multiplayer if you guys feel stuck with custom race picks that are over-powered. If the race picks can be properly balanced while maintaining 'believability', I believe it is an admirable pursuit.

[Logan]

Mebbe just boost the chance of being caught and killed? No idea how that would work out, though.

[Jaded Tortoise]

I am new and admit I haven't gotten onto kali to play it multiplayer yet, so haven't really gotten the full advantage in games of the repulsive being a freebie. But its rather obvious it is. I think that adding a spy malus would help give it some drawback, and stay well within believability (maybe -10% offensive) You can say what you want about cosmetics and such well figure that into the need for tech advances to offset it. On the other hand admittedly most of these races look so totally different from each other that they wouldn't be able to fit in on any other races worlds without drastic cosmetic changes. It would be good to have repulsive have another drawback though and I bet this would be an easy switch to add though I may be wrong.

[ALEX|D]

... new rule ...

if u r rep u r not allowd hire a leader, and u have to fire every leader u ll find.

[Time]

Repulsive -10% Spy Rolls, that sounds fair.
So would a Spy penalty for drastically different races, such as:
An Aquatic race trying to Spy on an above ground or underground race. A Cyber race Spying on an Aquatic race (all that water, bad for the circuits,lol).
A race that requires food, blending in with races that never need it.
and probably others Low-G in a High-G world etc.

hmmm... if an Ocean world has only water, how does that scilicoid survive? ...

of course, since not many players choose spy picks, then this point might be moot.

[lord_azmodan]

Other races find dealing with repulsive races impossible. Therefore, repulsive races are unable to form any agreement with other races. ... Legendary officers demand an increase of 50% to their cost of hiring to serve with repulsive races. ...

So why do leaders demand more money when you are repulsive, if that doesn't matter???

So if you "buy" spies, any traitor of the hostile race would demand more money for his "business". You could either increase the cost for spies or the maintenance or both.

But instead of that, you could decrease the spy roll. This would cause any repulsive player to build more spies than other races, so this would increase both cost & maintenance.

If Repulsive's could not spy offensively, this would indeed make Repulsive a bit more of a negative than it is now, and since it is almost a freebie now, that would be good.

Let us remember that we all play repulsive in our games.

I think MoO 2 wasn't meant to be a 1vs1 game. Any race picks are made for a play with multiple enemies. If you choose between 2 and 8 players, 5 will be average. So uncreative has only -4 because you could exchange other techs you haven't chosen. One of the 4 other plaers will surely get the missing tech. Since you have to wait for them and make a loss, it's a disadvantage. The same is true for feudal government (-50% research).

Any repulsive race cannot make trade or research agreements, so they probably forego 10 BC per trade and 10 research points per trade. On a 8 player game, this could be a real disadvantage. (Simply invade & destroy them )

In my opinion, repulsive should have be a negative version of charismatic. So it would be like this:
- halves any good diplomatic effect
- doubles any bad diplomatic effect
- any deal get a -50% chance of success
- doubles the hiring cost for legendary leaders
- decreasing the frequency
- assimilate at half rate

Sounds the same??? This changes the disadvantage so you could overcome it with enough technology. On the other hand, this would allow any charismatic race to negate both effects (own good one and any bad one). So it would be a good option to win an impossible single-player game without combat (includes antarian attack) or subterran enviroment (population bonus for galactic elections).

Repulsive should give only a -4 "penality".