Reversed battle setup possible ?

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Arralen
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Reversed battle setup possible ?

Postby Arralen » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:32 am

Would it be possible to reverse the battle setup layout - to have it start placing ships at the edges of the map instead of the center?

I think this would maneuvring more important - as it is now, with heavy, constant- damage weapons battles degenerate into a fast-draw shootout all to often IMHO.

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philcha
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Postby philcha » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:24 am

That's an interesting idea, but it needs some thought. In some situations I like to be able to manoeuvre (see my post on ship initiative). But there are some pitfalls a change in combat must avoid:
  • * It shouldn't make battles too long, especially in multi-player - I've also played Space Empires III, and in SE III a large battle can take 1/2 hour if you're trying to minimise losses / damage to your own ships. I remember one review described SE III's tactical combat as torture.
    * It must not make attacking ships too slow to get into range of ground-based defences (especially Stellar Converter!). I think this applies to missile-armed as well as beam-armed attackers - if a Stellar Converter destroys the attackers before the missiles hit it, battle ends while the missiles are still on their way.

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Time
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Postby Time » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:35 pm

* It must not make attacking ships too slow to get into range of ground-based defences (especially Stellar Converter!). I think this applies to missile-armed as well as beam-armed attackers - if a Stellar Converter destroys the attackers before the missiles hit it, battle ends while the missiles are still on their way. [/list]
If we started further back from the planet, would we run into a situation like MOO1, where the missiles have range, and could run out of range (fuel), before hitting a planet, if launched at the map edge?

Or is that concept not in the game at all, and therefore could never happen?
Or would it be created as a feature?
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

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philcha
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Postby philcha » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:41 am

You'd have to ask Lord B or one of the experienced modders that one. At present, with opposing fleets starting failry close, I've never seen missiles run out of fuel.

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philcha
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Postby philcha » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:00 am

On further thought, starting fleets further apart might require changes to the way missiles behave. At present a beam-armed fleet gets within shooting distance of its opponents in 1 move. If the fleets start at opposite edges of the map, missile-armed ships either fire without moving or fire then move on turn one and fire then move back on turn 2, to overload anti-missile defences. Meanwhile it takes a beam-armed fleet a few turns (at low drive tech levels) to get into range and they're taking damage all the way - and the missile-armed ships can reatreat any time, leaving behind the famous empty frigate (very hard to hit with beams in early game) to ensure that the result counts as a victory (if all ships retreat, the missiles self-destruct if they don't hit on the next turn).


So in order to start fleets further apart it might be necessary to set maximum targetting ranges for missiles and torps, i.e. can't fire on targets that are too far away. In the early game with slow ships that would mean a few non-shooting combat turns, until the fleets are close enough, as in MOO 1. But I wouldn't want missiles to run out of fuel as in MOO1 because that would tilt the balance too far in favour of beam ships - they charge, opponents fire missiles, beam ships move back until missiles run out of fuel, beam ships charge and missile ships are killed or forced to retreat when they run out of ammo. In this scenario it might also be necessary to keep missiles operational until they have hit or been shot down, as in Space Empires 3.


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