Connection / Lag

How-to and support discussion for game play over internet.
User avatar
ALEX|D
Posts:306
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 pm
Location:Germany NRW
Contact:
Connection / Lag

Postby ALEX|D » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:53 pm

Does anyone really know, whats important to avoid lag in 4 and 5ways ... ?

Is it important that the host has a huge upload ?
Or is it more important that all have a low ping ?
The one, who has worst ping is the one who is responsible for lag ?
I also heard XP should lag too, win98 should be better for online playing ?!?!

On 4ways I playd, I had the impression, that the lag is lower, after playing some turns.

What r ur impressions / opinions ... ?

User avatar
Gusset
Posts:99
Joined:Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:36 am
Location:Vancouver, WA, USA
Contact:

Postby Gusset » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:41 pm

My own observations, correct or not:

I've always assumed that the one with the slowest data transfer speed with the host sets the speed, which I consider to be separate from ping.

Ping (latency) probably does not matter in and of itself, though if the root cause is just an overall slow connection then it could be a symptom. I say this because a 28.8 connection can have a pretty low ping, but when transferring a large block of data it's still going to be slow. On the other hand, a higher ping combined with a very high transfer rate ought to be fine for a TBS game like MOO2.

Is there a way for a group of players to test individual data transfer speeds with one another, in an effort to establish the best server to use?

Now, the question as to the accuracy of my suppositions: is ping an adequate indicator by itself?

-Gusset

User avatar
Lord Brazen
Site Admin
Posts:162
Joined:Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:16 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Postby Lord Brazen » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:31 pm

The problem is this. The game uses broadcast packets and broadcast packets must be sent and received by all players.

So, each packet you send must be sent to every other players IP. Also, each player must acknowlege receipt of those packets by sending an acknowlegement packet to every player (again a broadcast).

The packets being exchanged increase exponentially as more players are added. So the person with the slowest ping and/or transfer rate can cause the whole game to lag.

Also, the kali server host has additional packet load. They must have a decent up/down bandwidth.

2 way games can get away with dialup connections. 4 way can get away with dialups exept for kali server host who should be broadband. Pings also should be ok.

If you want to play an 8 way you would need everyone on a broadband type connection, pings would need to be good, and the kali server host would need a connection better than 256kbps/256kbps up/down. I have successfully hosted a 7 way but never an 8 way.

User avatar
ALEX|D
Posts:306
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 pm
Location:Germany NRW
Contact:

Postby ALEX|D » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:59 pm

Here r each a test for up- and download.

Upload:
http://www.testmy.net/u_load.php

Download:
http://www.testmy.net/d_load.php

With this test we can figure out, who has the best connection (who is the best host).
Also, the kali server host has additional packet load. They must have a decent up/down bandwidth.
Is there a difference in "lobby" and "server-mode" games ?
IIRC PK said, lobby is better for battles.

I checkd a bit Kali FAQ and Forum, but I couldnt figure out, what is the real difference. If Lobby is better, why can only 1 Trial join a "server-mode" IP, while all trials can use lobbys ?!?! A bit paradoxical :?

User avatar
Lord Brazen
Site Admin
Posts:162
Joined:Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:16 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Postby Lord Brazen » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:01 pm

Is there a difference in "lobby" and "server-mode" games ?
Yes there is. Lobby games are run using the chat server as the kali server. The chat server different software on it than we have when we run a private server. That is why lobby free serial rules are different. Also, there is more bandwidth on a kali chat server which is why there is difference in combat lag.

User avatar
ALEX|D
Posts:306
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 pm
Location:Germany NRW
Contact:

Postby ALEX|D » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:20 pm

With other words, its better to play (in case of connection/lag) over lobby than over a private server ?!?!

I will try this on next Xways, I hope connection will be better then :) !

User avatar
Lord Brazen
Site Admin
Posts:162
Joined:Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:16 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Postby Lord Brazen » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:19 am

With other words, its better to play (in case of connection/lag) over lobby than over a private server ?!?!

I will try this on next Xways, I hope connection will be better then :) !
Not entirely....If there are not a lot of lobby games running and one of your groups connection sucks, then a lobby is the best choice. If you all have excellent connections then a private server is best.

Either way, an overloaded server is bad (our chat server is not overloaded...infact kali chat servers these days are not). Also, a bad ping is bad and too many players is bad.

If I was hosting, I would say lag would be better than a lobby....others cannot say the same though.

User avatar
PK
Posts:88
Joined:Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:47 pm
Location:Poland
Contact:

Postby PK » Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:46 am

I played over 2 years on server mode thinking lobbies sucks. Few months ago o tried lobby cos kali was down serveral times and there was no other way to play. I always had huge lags in battles with Dmitry. His lines werent to good. I was in shock when I first saw the fight. Finally I could mark my weapons without 2 second delay. Just mark yellow or red was super fast. Amazing :)

Cabman and I played also via server and now in lobby. Since we are near to eachother and both on dsl we never had big problems with lags. But now we also use lobby. I must say its better now. Not much but better.

LOBBIES RULEZ 8)
PK

User avatar
ALEX|D
Posts:306
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 pm
Location:Germany NRW
Contact:

Postby ALEX|D » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:03 pm

If I was hosting, I would say lag would be better than a lobby....others cannot say the same though.
How much up- and download is needed ?

I have ~176 Kbps (~21 kB/s) upload

and

~662 Kbps (~ 81 kB/s) download

User avatar
Lord Brazen
Site Admin
Posts:162
Joined:Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:16 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Postby Lord Brazen » Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:44 pm

How much up- and download is needed ?
I have ~1.2Mbps down and 300kbps up (they say its 3Mbps connection but I have never seen it)

Your connection looks good enough to host a 6way as long as all have decent connections / pings.
Last edited by Lord Brazen on Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ALEX|D
Posts:306
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 pm
Location:Germany NRW
Contact:

Postby ALEX|D » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:26 pm

Ah k, thx for info.

How much up- and download should a host have, that private server is better than a lobby game ? What do u think ?

User avatar
Lord Brazen
Site Admin
Posts:162
Joined:Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:16 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Postby Lord Brazen » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:53 pm

How much? That depends on how many players. Most ppl with a broadband DSL or cable modem can host a 5 way.

To host an 8 way you would need a T1 connection or SDSL (better than 1Mbps up/ 1Mbps down) likely.

I've tried 8 ways before. Can't seem to make it happen with my connection.

User avatar
ALEX|D
Posts:306
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 pm
Location:Germany NRW
Contact:

Postby ALEX|D » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:45 pm

The last games I playd via lobby had a good connection :) !

We should test someone a HUGE 8-WAY :twisted: !

User avatar
Brent15
Posts:59
Joined:Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:42 pm
Location:United States of America
Contact:

Postby Brent15 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:38 pm

This would be very fun, if only we could get everyone coordinated and well organized. I'm sure it would otherwise fall apart , most players on Kali seem to be interested in getting the game going ASAP. We would also need to make sure everyone was going to remain committed regardless of their start. I can't imagine eight players being happy with their starting systems.

Ever since I got broadband, very few of my games have had much lag. I've accepted alot of what has been mentioned in this thread as true. The connection is only as good as the slowest player's. Its interesting to me that battles within the game seem to exchange information just between the two engaged in combat. I have noticed different communications speeds depending on my opponent.

I guess this would be a perfect time to thank everyone for their patience when I was on dial-up :oops: .

User avatar
Cabman
Posts:235
Joined:Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:58 pm
Location:Zabrze, Poland

Postby Cabman » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:42 am

I play on 128/320 kbit ADSL.. so can't be a host in 8 way :D. But it would be great to take part in it ... i have two weeks holiday since tomorrow, so only 7 mooers needed to start :D


Return to “Internet games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests