Newb questions

Discussion about Master of Orion (the first game in the series)
Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm
Newb questions

Postby Causality » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:00 pm

So this is my first time playing MOO 1. I've played Civ for thousands and thousands of hours, so I'm familiar with 4X.

A few things:

I have been building colony ships and sending them to stars to create a new colony. However, if I want to take population from planet A and send it to planet B both of which I already own and are inhabited, do I use a colony ship for that? The directions say something about a "colony transport" and it sounds like that is a different kind of ship, but i don't see how to build it or where I could research it in the tech tree.

I have a world that is in revolt and I don't know how to send some population over there to quell the revolt.

I have some other questions, but I want to see if this forum gets any attention before I start asking more.

Thanks!

Causality

User avatar
Darza
Posts:134
Joined:Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:09 am

Postby Darza » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:17 pm

When you select a planet - you can see a Transport button in a bottom, near ship picture. Press it, and choose an amount of pop (up to 1/2 of recent on a planet) you want to send and target. This is used for both moving of colonists, and attacking on a planets, such as rebellous one.
Join a chat at irc.quakenet.org #moo2 and ill answer other questions. This chat is also can be used from main blog page. See you

Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:51 pm

Ah! So I don't even need to build a ship! That's the trick. Whew. Thanks so much! That was one of those "little things" that just got under my skin. I just could NOT figure it out.

I will look you up in IRC when I need more help. Thanks!

User avatar
Darza
Posts:134
Joined:Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:09 am

Postby Darza » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:52 pm

Also Simtex provided a brilliant manual for a game, it would solve most of question in fact - http://www.jonsullivan.com/misc/moo.pdf

Catalyst_Kh
Posts:119
Joined:Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:49 pm

Postby Catalyst_Kh » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:05 pm

Also Simtex provided a brilliant manual for a game, it would solve most of question in fact - http://www.jonsullivan.com/misc/moo.pdf
That manual helped me starting to win games at impossible level easly, before reading that i was barely matching hard level. :)

Catalyst_Kh
Posts:119
Joined:Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:49 pm

Postby Catalyst_Kh » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:37 pm


Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:31 pm

Thanks for that patch link. It didn't work, though. :( I'm running DosBox D-Fend Reloaded on my Win XP system to play MOO. Is there another patch that makes the same fixes that will work with DosBox?


I won my first game easy enough. That manual is poorly written, but I managed to figure most things out on my own.

One of my strategies was to advance as quick as I could down "Planetology" so I could colonize Inferno and up worlds before they could. It worked fine. However, even by the end of the game, I was never given the option to research Toxic and Radiation. Even after I had researched all the levels that were below them.

I'm going to try a galaxy one step bigger and one or two steps harder. I think I'll stick with 3 other races for now.

Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:53 pm

I got another patch from here:

http://www.myabandonware.com/game/maste ... 5#download

And that didn't work either, with DosBox.

I had to reinstall the original files (same link) and made a new folder and it works again just fine (glad I finished that game).

Catalyst_Kh
Posts:119
Joined:Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:49 pm

Postby Catalyst_Kh » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:29 pm

This patch works fine with any dosbox, dospet, D-Fend Reloaded, and even with free dos or dos 6.22 at any virtual machine software. The only problem I can recall is that some MOO distributives lacks some files (but original moo still works though :)), and after adding those files all works fine. Like for example this file (a random guess), put it into orion folder: V11.LBX

After starting of patched orion.exe it should inform you, why it can't work, if window is closing too fast and you can't read that, you may change it in dosbox config or bat file. Some uncommon starting parameters or settings in dosbox config in your particular package also could be responsible, you may check that by running orion from clear default Dos Box 0.74, apart from D-Fend.

Also read that stuff.

Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:59 pm

In my second game, I had some bad luck with the layout. I could only reach 1 other planet with the colony ship and it took a long time to get fuel tanks and hostile planet settling. There was one point where I had 2 bases and my main enemy (Meklars) had 6. Even once I got up to 6, they were at 10 or more and I was always way behind in everything. Just when I started to kind of establish a line and build some defense, the Meklars started bombing my planets out of existence. I wasn't able to build fast enough to defend, and I lost a few planet colonies. By the time I bribed him with enough technology to stop, I was half the strength I use to be. The status graph showed him having about four times my power.

So I quit.

My question: How much of it was the fault of the layout and how much of it was my fault?

More info: My basic strategy in all these kinds of games is to expand quickly at first, build up some tech and get a little ahead in tech. Then I build defense. I look for peace at first and all the trade I can get. I avoid battles until my tech advantage is big enough that I can build up an offense quickly (which requires a fair number of colonies) that is far enough ahead on the tech tree that I don't have to worry if I am somewhat outnumbered.

I never got ahead in tech. I never got to expand quickly at first. Should I have adapted another strategy knowing my starting position was so handicapped, and if so- what should i have done?

Thanks for any and all advice!

- C

Catalyst_Kh
Posts:119
Joined:Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:49 pm

Postby Catalyst_Kh » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:30 am

In my second game, I had some bad luck with the layout. I could only reach 1 other planet with the colony ship
Bad luck is when you have no habitable planet at all (within 3 range) for your free colony ship. What you had here is just slightly unfavorable start. :) As this is not multiplayer, you may just restart, if you don't like that kind of challenge.
and it took a long time to get fuel tanks and hostile planet settling. There was one point where I had 2 bases and my main enemy (Meklars) had 6.
What was your research order up to this point?
Even once I got up to 6, they were at 10 or more and I was always way behind in everything. Just when I started to kind of establish a line and build some defense, the Meklars started bombing my planets out of existence. I wasn't able to build fast enough to defend, and I lost a few planet colonies.
It would be useful to see saves from your game, hard to guess the reason your got behind. In 1.40 patch, besides all other improvements, there is autosave each turn in separate save file, so after the game you have several hundreds new files, named with turn numbers, so you easily can pick the move in question and show it here. In original moo you have to store saves manually.
By the time I bribed him with enough technology to stop, I was half the strength I use to be. The status graph showed him having about four times my power.
If you were at impossible level it is supposed to be so, AI's have much lower tech cost, much cheaper upkeep price, so they can afford a lot of fleet and missile bases without economy collapse. The idea here (at impossible) is to win by using better tactics, better strategy, to overcome that big gap in quantity. It is at least interesting in moo, as in moo2 AI is very weak even at impossible.
My question: How much of it was the fault of the layout and how much of it was my fault?
Do you have the saves to look up?
More info: My basic strategy in all these kinds of games is to expand quickly at first, build up some tech and get a little ahead in tech. Then I build defense. I look for peace at first and all the trade I can get. I avoid battles until my tech advantage is big enough that I can build up an offense quickly (which requires a fair number of colonies) that is far enough ahead on the tech tree that I don't have to worry if I am somewhat outnumbered.
Depending at galaxy size, difficulty and number of opponents different strategies are better, especially for different races. But most times you can develop much quicker by immediate conquering of any race, who you can reach right now (and capable of taking out), of course one by one if possible. :) Because each new planet you conquered will compensates for all expenses you invested and start working as a clear asset and springboard for farther conquest. Also it is much cheaper to take ready developed planets, than growing new colonies from scratch. :)
I never got ahead in tech. I never got to expand quickly at first. Should I have adapted another strategy knowing my starting position was so handicapped, and if so- what should i have done?
What was your race and starting conditions? What was tech order?

Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:00 pm

The difficulty was only average on that last game that I lost.

I started a new game. It took me a few tries before I had a map where I had planets that were habitable within the 3 range.

Settings: Huge, 3 enemies and average difficulty.

And I feel like I got really lucky on this map, because there were half a dozen habitable worlds all within the standard colony ship. Two of them had Artifacts, too.

I got up to 5 settled planets pretty quick. Just as I was going for #6, I see a Sakkra not far from my 6th. We make contact. And he is already way ahead of me! Yikes. He has 6 planets to my 5, and he is ahead in tech and fleet size.

At first, I was completely stumped, but if what you say is true about the AI's having lower costs, then I guess it makes sense. I just would have thought that with my very favorable layout, I would have been at least EVEN with the enemies.

I saved the game at that first contact point.

I haven't worked with DOS in twenty years. I will go try and see if I can figure out DOSBOX and get it so I can update the patches.

Thanks for the advice!

- C

Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:08 pm

Here is what data I can provide for my current (3rd) game:

Huge, 3 enemies, on average.

I'm Klakon. They are: Sakkras, Humans and I forget (not Darlak).

I have no research going into propulsion (Guide says I am weak at that). I figure I'll steal/trade for that along the way. The Guide says I am good at Construction, so I put half of my propulsion points into that, and the other half into Planetology. I like being able to colonize Radiated and Mineral Rich planets as soon as reasonably possible.

That's my plan.

And since you said to attack quickly, I am going to build up some offense and start going after the Sakkra before they come after me.

Oh, another tactic I do: I send colonists/people from my home world to the settled worlds to get their population up more quickly. I find that the homeworld gains population fast enough that this seems to be beneficial.

- C

Causality
Posts:9
Joined:Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Postby Causality » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:29 pm

If a planet has 100 enemy warships orbiting it and I send 100 colony transports to that planet...

Then the only things that repel my transports is the planetary defense (missles plus whatever shields and such they have developed) and the enemy colonists that live on that planet, right?

Catalyst_Kh
Posts:119
Joined:Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:49 pm

Postby Catalyst_Kh » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:57 pm

At first, I was completely stumped, but if what you say is true about the AI's having lower costs, then I guess it makes sense. I just would have thought that with my very favorable layout, I would have been at least EVEN with the enemies.
...
The difficulty was only average on that last game that I lost.
It works this way – at each level of difficulty you have additional modifiers for tech:
Simple – your tech cost is 67% of normal;
Easy – your tech cost is 83% of normal;
Average – your have original tech cost;
Hard – your tech cost is 117% of normal;
Impossible – your tech cost it 133% of normal;
The same is true about all maintenance costs. Maybe for maintenance there are other percentages (don't remember now), but they should be close to those anyway. Also, at impossible level AI in addition to that has artificially increased prod and tech output from scratch, plus some other enhances, which in essence makes upkeep (having more production) even lower (50% lower than yours or more), and making their tech cost (considering enhance bonus) again 50% cheaper, than yours, or more. Maybe even much more than 50%, don't remember right now, but at least 50% for sure. Also I don't remember, does AI has any output enhances at hard level or not, even if they do have it is very tiny one in compare to impossible. But at average level AI has absolutely no bonuses over you, plus they have no extra colony ships over you at the start (they have 2 CSs at hard and 4 at impossible), and they are playing bad strategy and bad tactics, thus, you are definitely developing very slow, if you let them outnumber you in everything at average level.
I got up to 5 settled planets pretty quick. Just as I was going for #6, I see a Sakkra not far from my 6th. We make contact. And he is already way ahead of me! Yikes. He has 6 planets to my 5, and he is ahead in tech and fleet size.
At which number of factories you switch to build CSs? What is your tech order up to contact?
I saved the game at that first contact point.
You can post save files there in several seconds, after a minute of registrations and acquaintance.
If a planet has 100 enemy warships orbiting it and I send 100 colony transports to that planet...
Then the only things that repel my transports is the planetary defense (missles plus whatever shields and such they have developed) and the enemy colonists that live on that planet, right?
If those warships are small sized or old designs, then it is very modest fleet, don't judge by number only. As any developed planet you have grows pop very quickly by putting production to eco, you may send tons of pop to capture enemy planet, regardless of pop combat strength. But if you can't defend your new planet afterwards AI will get it back right away, so it is quite pointless to do so, if you can't beat the current defending fleet out there. But if there is no fleet (or very weak), only missile bases there, then you are right – you can break through with tons of transported pop, missile bases will not strike back afterwards. :D
I haven't worked with DOS in twenty years. I will go try and see if I can figure out DOSBOX and get it so I can update the patches.
Nice to see that someone is still interested in playing such old masterpieces, as moo. You need no knowledges about DOS to recall, just make some settings in bosbox config file itself and that's all. Also here is the archive with clean the surely working 1.40 moo, try that to narrow the location of the problem. You may run install.exe there to change sound settings, but don't reinstall the game though.

Good luck to you with moo adventures.


Return to “Master of Orion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests