The ethics of colonizing and/or invasion of worlds

[Matthew]

MOO2 gives us a glimpse of what the future may hold in terms of developing a space empire spanning the galaxy.

Imagine that we somehow manage to develop the technologies that would allow the colonization and invasion of other worlds. What are the ethical considerations? What right do we have to take over other worlds? Does might make right? Should we worry about preserving ecosystems that evolved over millions or years or just take what we need regardless?

[Overlord2]

I would say people won't ever reach the outer space before they change internally, including ethical consciousness, so you shouldn't bother with it

[Aeonic]

Ethics don't matter where aliens are involved. The industrial side of humanity doesn't seem to be overly concerned with mass extinction of out own animals, why should they care about sentient aliens? Squash 'em all and build factories on their home worlds!

And I doubt there'd be much of an ethical dispute about colonizing other planets unless it was purely due to the fact that humans can't take care of the one(s) they've got.

[Time]

When we come across the alien versions of pigs, cows, or chicken, I'm sure we would do there what we do now.
When we come across violent speices, such as velociraptors, most would likely be hunted, some placed in zoos, and a few left wild (think African Lions).
When we come across an advanced civilization, I am sure we would want to learn from them, sell to them, employ them, and possibly (if compatable) breed with them. One just has to look to what one's own country currently does with lesser developed countries.
At some point we can expect to some of our vehicles made, our food canned, and our clothing and shoes made by less expensive labor all over the Galaxy. Or perhaps here, for them.

[Matthew]

What about a scenario like in Hyperion by Dan Simmons. The "Ousters" were once human then migrated to living in space. Over time, they evolved to better adapt to living in the harsh conditions of outer space. They no longer looked human. Eventually there was conflict between the two species that lead to the invasion of Hyperion by the Ouster swarm.

[Overlord2]

The conflict is the key in your sentence. What would be the conflict if two species are living separately?

[Matthew]

The conflict is the key in your sentence. What would be the conflict if two species are living separately?

Every nation has it's War hawks and bigots. All it takes is for some intolerant fool to gain enough power to start a conflict.

[Overlord2]

So it means killing others just so? Or for the entertainment?

[Matthew]

So it means killing others just so? Or for the entertainment?

I think the basic mentality is, "get them before they get you" or "it's us or them."

[Overlord2]

So it's fear, destroy other species because they could be potential threat....Such aproach may lead to decline of your own species...
Following this logic we could say that other human could be potential threat too, so why don't kill all other people to eliminate threat?

[Matthew]

It's all hypothethical. I don't advocate such dangerous notions.

[Time]

In any case, we are like the Humans vs 1 opponent, Pre-Warp on a Huge Map. We have Nuclear Missles. Some could argue Automates Factories, Research Labs, or Planetary Missle Base. Just no Colony Bases or Freighters, yet.
Some day, that other race could show up, after colonizing or capturing several other planets, meanwhile, we are the race with only one planet and not expanding. We've all played that simulation enough times to know what could happen next.

[Aeonic]

Who's to say that the aliens didn't start hundreds of thousands or millions of years before we ever entered space? If they've been around that long, humanity wouldn't stand a chance in a war, but their civilization would be so advanced they probably wouldn't consider us any more of a threat than grasshoppers. Or who's to say that any other alien civilizations won't come into existence until millions of years into the future, after humanity expands into the stars? There's nothing that says all these "aliens", including us, had to start at the same time.

But then, realistically speaking, there is NO reason whatsoever for two civilizations to be fighting each other in space. Most fights are for territory, resources, and control. Space is so large that there's no need to fight over territory, plenty of resources, and too much for anyone to control anyway. The universe isn't limited to 70 stars like MOO is. If MOO2 had 50,000,000,000 stars, would it be more productive to colonize and make friends or attack the other guys? Why attack? There's nothing worth fighting over. Unless of course, you think they're cute and want them as slaves.

The only other alternative I can think of might be a peacemaker war, that is, one species attacking another in order to bring peace to the other species, such as what the USA supposedly does with other countries. Or you might think of what the aliens did in the movie 'The Abyss', where the aliens basically threatened to destroy humanity if they didn't learn to behave.

But the concept of something like 'Independence Day' is ludicrous. Why would any aliens fight a war over the resources on one planet when there are countless numbers of other planets out there? Its not worth the trouble.

[Time]

Who's to say that the aliens didn't start hundreds of thousands or millions of years before we ever entered space? If they've been around that long, humanity wouldn't stand a chance in a war, but their civilization would be so advanced they probably wouldn't consider us any more of a threat than grasshoppers. Or who's to say that any other alien civilizations won't come into existence until millions of years into the future, after humanity expands into the stars? There's nothing that says all these "aliens", including us, had to start at the same time.

I agree too.

But then, realistically speaking, there is NO reason whatsoever for two civilizations to be fighting each other in space.

Sure there is, FOOD! No race would want to starve, and if it came down to a fight to survive moment, I'm sure any being that just traveled several light years (In our case several generations) to find, perhaps, the only planet cabable of supporting life nearby, (Out of the 100+ extrasolar planets discovered, we haven't found one yet either) That they might just take it with force. (Think of us in MOO2, when we stumble on a Huge Gaia UR planet vacant or poorly defended).

Most fights are for territory, resources, and control. Space is so large that there's no need to fight over territory, plenty of resources, and too much for anyone to control anyway.

Yes, and controlling several hundred systems could realistically only be policed locally.

The universe isn't limited to 70 stars like MOO is. If MOO2 had 50,000,000,000 stars, would it be more productive to colonize and make friends or attack the other guys? Why attack? There's nothing worth fighting over.

I hope when Humans inhabit most of the planets here at Sol, they discover a race out there, that has this opinion too. I hope we come prepared for a fight though.

Unless of course, you think they're cute and want them as slaves.

Hey, I like my 3 million blue alien farmers, and those other nice races that assimilate into my Empire.

The only other alternative I can think of might be a peacemaker war, that is, one species attacking another in order to bring peace to the other species, such as what the USA supposedly does with other countries.

Stargate style, yes.

But the concept of something like 'Independence Day' is ludicrous. Why would any aliens fight a war over the resources on one planet when there are countless numbers of other planets out there? Its not worth the trouble.

I have to disagree here, some reasons already stated above.
If we as Humans, were to send our first colony ship completely defenseless, out to a new system, we would be fools. Even though the likelyhood of us coming across an alien race, is very rare, it is usually a safe wise precaution to come prepared.
'Independence Day' had its unrealistic moments (the computer virus that worked perfectly on alien computer systems, for example), but, it did reveal an alien viewpoint rarely seen in the Star Trek/Star Wars/ Babylon5 type of movies and shows, Their race LIVED in space. They only stopped by for more Fresh food and to replenish their resourses, then keep moving on "Like Locusts", ravaging planet after planet. They didn't care about diplomacy.
If that movie had ended realistically, we would have lost. They studied us from a distance, disrupted our communications, destroyed most of our largest inhabited areas early on, then defeated almost all threats they faced as they gained air superiority.
Sure, it would have made more sence for them to establish our world as one of their own, permanently, but, that wasn't their race's way of life.

[Aeonic]

I can't say much on the food issue, I'd hope any aliens that lived in space would have some self-renewing form of sustenance rather than feeding on whatever they find while they're out there (because there usually ain't much out there). If they were attracted to earth because earth happened to have something that they needed that other planets didn't, well, mankind is doomed.

Also, as for the scenario of two races fighting over the MOO2 equivalent of a "huge UR Gaia world", two species from entirely different planets are unlikely to have the same ideas of what an "ideal planet" would be. One race might be happy in -200 C while the other is happy in 2000 C. One likes to eat fish and the other likes to eat rocks. One lives on land and breathes air, the other lives underground like worms and enjoys toxic gas. Chances are slim there'd be mutual appeal.

The only thing they might have in common is a desire for building materials, but in space, they'd be all over. Unless the aliens have a particular need for wood.