moo2 races and non traditional races

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KFizzle
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moo2 races and non traditional races

Postby KFizzle » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:57 am

pretty much im just posting this topic to get info on non traditional races and maybe if possible get replies on how to rank races..

i pretty much rank most uni races as tier 1 and all litho races as tier2 since those races are the strongest races of all, prolly put all the creative races along with the litho races as well since theyre a little bit slower than regular uni races.

but what would be non traditional races?

traditonal races include:
uni: aqua +prod, tol, subaqua
litho: demo, sub, uni, tol
demo: aqua +bc
crea: uni, demo, lith
dict: tol, subaqua

that would pretty much be it, and im not good on blitz races at all
except for the one i got off siron which is tele-transd race.

so it would be great if we could list some blitz/feudal races here on this topic if possible.

but what would be some good non traditional races that are fun to play with demo, or dict?

one race ive tried out and had a lot of fun with, is sub +100gro +1bc, with no home world advantages, but this race makes the same amount of money with 80 pop by turn 100 with what would demo aqua +1bc would make the same exact money with 60 pop by turn 100. or close to anyhow. the only difference is demo still techs faster and makes more money for less pop, but a dict cash race is still fun to play. i actually got that race off silent over half a decade ago.

another non traditional race would be for example: demo sub +50gro arti large hw, thats played a lot by dirt-bag. i gave that race some shot and it seems like a good race but still hard to play, maybe i would rather get +1res instead of arti

truth is, are there any good demo tech races out there? thats not litho?
it seems like the only good non litho demo race is the demo cash race.

well whatever opinions i can get here still would be appreciated.

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siron
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Postby siron » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:35 am

There is a good overview by dirt-bag with respect to several blitz races.

Besides transd-tele I had also fun playing some omni-stealth-tele which is a bit psychoterror :). Its fun to grab all the first colonies of the other players....they sit with there whole fleet on hw then...and have no clue whats going on. (They build a large fleet and you see them crapping it again when you attack a different player in the meanwhile.)

You have to play fast turns so the other players dont chat between the turns....and unfortunately teamspeak eliminates such choices.

A further "non-traditional" is often played by Zirkahn.
dict lith 2sci artl hw.
Some "pseudo-demovore" with better spy defense.

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Gusset
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Re: moo2 races and non traditional races

Postby Gusset » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:18 pm

are there any good demo tech races out there? thats not litho?
it seems like the only good non litho demo race is the demo cash race.

well whatever opinions i can get here still would be appreciated.
If it's a game where lith and some other "power" picks are banned, demo/aqua/+1 food can be fun to play, and there are 4 other race picks to spend (LAHW or LRHW are my preferences). The +food/aqua combo is helpful; you only need 2 farmers at game start, so research can get started a little quicker if you take that route. Plus, aqua has an obvious pop advantage over a lith race.

Not a race to beat all others, but it has potential in the right situation. Might be fun to play it against the demo/+BC race; I don't know which would come out ahead (all that cash starts to add up...)

-Gusset

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Time
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Postby Time » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:13 pm

I was wondering why there were not many Spy races?
Dict, Tele. Spy+20 plus the 45 points of Spy techs will give you the best spy advantages in the game (and if you get a Spy leader, WOW!). Uni. good too.
In test games on hard, you can still destroy starbases and factory/research buildings and steal techs. you don't research.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

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KFizzle
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Postby KFizzle » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:01 pm

i think there's a blitz race based on spying.
you could check out all the blitz races at this link: http://www.masteroforion2.com/dirt-bag/blitz.htm

i think the real answer to your question would be is that just about all or most popular races in moo2, are based on four particular picks, namely lithovore, tolerant, aquatic, and subterranean. unless you're a blitz race, almost always in any multiplayer games online, people would choose at least one of those picks, and addtional picks magnifying that race.

i just finally discovered unilith +1prod, after testing out demolith and making c3s bbs by turn 70, i tried out the same thing with unilith, and it seems like unilith can still make a bb by turn 70, but it doesnt get c3s till turn 80, which still not that bad, considering how good litho techs without supers. gotta love litho.

of course by default, litho has smaller pop, but you can get used to it, when you realize you dont need any farmers. even then its not hard to pop 60-80 pop by turn 100 with litho.

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Gusset
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Postby Gusset » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:13 pm

I was wondering why there were not many Spy races?
While spying can be helpful in a game, there are at least two reasons I can think of why I would not want to rely on spying to be my primary means of being effective in a "normal" MP game (large galaxy, 4 players).

1) You need contact with another race in order to spy on them. This is a risk for the spying race in that by the time you make contact, you are likely behind in pop, tech (which could include spying techs), and potentially fleet, since so many of your race pick points were spent on spy attributes. Spies can't protect you from an enemy fleet. For that, you need production capacity (read: pop/tech) so you can build ships. I know that personally, if I made contact with another player who was a spy race, I'd launch the fastest attack I could get off the ground, first to eliminate contact (if killing an OP would do it), then to invade.

2) While a spying race would certainly have more success spying than a "normal" race, spying is still randomly driven. I can make an estimate on how long it will take me to research a tech, or build a ship, etc. I can't make an estimate for when my spies will steal the enemy's killer tech that I desperately need for parity. It could happen the first turn, it could happen in 20 turns, or it could be never.

In a small galaxy, or a crowded larger one, where contact happens relatively soon, I think it could be fun, and possibly work. In a 4 player large galaxy, though, I'd expect difficulty.

I suppose I could just not have the proper appreciation for the effectiveness of a spying race in MP. These are just my own thoughts.

-Gusset

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Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:38 pm

Successful spying is very random but the +/- advantage and the number of spies you have does make a difference. The +spying races have a good chance of stealing techs from a -spying race assuming they have roughly the same number of offensive spies as there are defending.

Given the randomness of it, it's not something you can really count on but could give you an edge in some situations. I wouldn't go all out spying and sacrifice production/research just to spy. It would just be something extra to steal a few techs or sabotage an enemy that you plan to attack.

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zoetropo
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Postby zoetropo » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:28 pm

My experience with Spy+20 Tele is only in SP, but I noticed how easy it was to sabotage and steal techs from the Darloks as well as all the other races. With these picks, successful spy actions are so frequent (every turn) that the random probability must be about 99 +- 1 %.

There is no way to avoid being hated in MP, but of course in SP the use of Charismatic (together with Telepathic) enables transgressions to be forgotten within 2 turns. So Charm Tele Spy +20 one of the most fun SP races (to play as).

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Time
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Postby Time » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:11 pm

So it should trash a demolith? right?

Demo 0, Spy +20 Tele 30 before bonus's and leaders. Which, when you start with a Tele, I've noticed you tend to recieve a leader with a spy bonus.
If one expands toward the center, with outposts (if you have to), and research ship range and spy techs as fast as you can, you will get in range to disrupt/upset a demolith. the race I mentioned has good prod.
It would seem like a nemisis to the demolith, which gets high marks here.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

nelemak
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Postby nelemak » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 am

just had a feverish dream about a odd race... damn i wish i culd get the dosbox working,,, anyways.

feudal
industry+2
research+2
creative
repulsive
&subterranean when you get mutation

should be able to squeeze out ships quite well, and reaserch isnt completely screwed over

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Time
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Postby Time » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:39 pm

Might be a fun try in single player, but, in multiplayer having a feudal race and expecting to get to mutation sounds like suicide.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).


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