Are food replicators useful?

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Cugel
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Are food replicators useful?

Postby Cugel » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:06 pm

Hi, all:

I occasionally read, on the web, recommendations to get the food replicators technology, but never with an explanation of why. Here is an example:
Custom race: Lithovore, Creative, Low Gravity, -50% Growth, +1 Industry or science (what ever suits you best)
... And now for the best part of this little trick. When you get the opportunity to get Food replicator DO IT! (Note you cannot research it your self so you have to steal or trade for it hence you are creative so you have tech to trade)

Anyone have an idea what the trick part of this "trick" is?

To me, food replicators have always seemed overpriced (only 1 food for a whole 2 production plus 10 in maintenance at that) just to have emergency food. Perhaps at high production bonuses, the freed up farmers more than make up for it, provided you install food replicators everywhere AND then stop farming entirely? Would that really be worth it? Perhaps it's not a trick at all but some bug exploit, something that only applies to a lithovore race?

I'd love to be enlightened. Thanks. :)
"I would offer congratulations were it
not for this tentacle gripping my leg."
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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:24 am

What version of moo do you consider? In regular moo the only playable race is uni, and it doesn't need food replicators at all. Besides food replicators are located in the same place with transporters, which is dominant choice in most cases.
Also your question isn't clear. Lithovore races don't consume food. Why do they need food replicators?

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Cugel
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Postby Cugel » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:44 pm

Thanks for the prompt reply, Overlord2. :)
What version of moo do you consider?

MOO2, unmodified (for now not even patched). (I'd not mind to hear about the others versions (and the patch), tho)
In regular moo the only playable race is uni,

I don't understand this one. Do you mean custom races with the unification attribute?
and it doesn't need food replicators at all. Besides food replicators are located in the same place with transporters, which is dominant choice in most cases. Also your question isn't clear. Lithovore races don't consume food. Why do they need food replicators?

I agree with all that. It puzzles me, too. That's why I asked in this forum why other players might consider it useful to add the food replicator tech. Here's the link to the page where no less than two players recommended food replicator without saying why:

http://www.orionsector.com/pages/moo3/e ... rchive.php
"I would offer congratulations were it
not for this tentacle gripping my leg."
(quote from "Cugel's Saga")

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Time
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Postby Time » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:19 am

Hi Cugel,
I re-checked out that link, and alot of those suggestions had to be from when the game just came out, because, many of their race choices are just not that great, at least not for multi-player games. I saw dictatorship races, along with feudal and cybernetic races, and most competitive players would agree they could beat an opponent with those race pick choices.

As far as the Food Replicators go, I usually do not research them. They are not cost effective as mentioned above. The only real use I can see, is for a -1 Food race or any race (especially, subterranean) on a Toxic Planet to prevent blockades. This seems more like a Single Player strategy than a multi-player one.

A Unification and Aquatic race with Soil Enrichment, Terraforming and Weather Controller will have plenty of food to freighter over to any other planet, so, Food Replicators will be almost useless.

I have not heard of a bug associated with Food Replicators, with or without Lithovore, but, then again, I no longer have any version earlier than 1.3 anymore, so, that could be a version 1.0 bug, long since fixed.

If you are looking for good races to try, you will fing many suggested on here. Most good ones will include Unification with the Repulsive, -10 Ground Combat, and -20 Ship Defense, Negatives.
Other Positives usually include:
(1) Aquatic, Production+2, Lg Rich HW, or
(2) Aquatic, Subterranean, Production+1, or
(3) Tolerant with (Production+1 Lg HW, or Food+1).

Hope this helps.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

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Cugel
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Postby Cugel » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:49 am

Thanks. :)
Hi Cugel,
I re-checked out that link, and alot of those suggestions had to be from when the game just came out, ...
I have not heard of a bug associated with Food Replicators, with or without Lithovore, but, then again, I no longer have any version earlier than 1.3 anymore, so, that could be a version 1.0 bug, long since fixed.

Hmm... according to my Readme.txt file, I have Version 1.2.

I was recently looking through the above link in an attempt to see if the game can be enjoyably played (single player) on Impossible setting, after all (something I had long given up to do since I kept getting buried using my usual race picks and (typically more defensive) strategies in the past). I found that with telepathy, espionage, and constant aggression, I could actually do well on Impossible setting.

If you are looking for good races to try, you will fing many suggested on here. Most good ones will include Unification with the Repulsive, -10 Ground Combat, and -20 Ship Defense, Negatives.
Other Positives usually include:
(1) Aquatic, Production+2, Lg Rich HW, or
(2) Aquatic, Subterranean, Production+1, or
(3) Tolerant with (Production+1 Lg HW, or Food+1).

What about telepathic? I had long discounted that based on failures to develop sufficient tech and/or build ships fast enough in some early tries long ago, but in one or two of the races on the mentioned link, I did find it very useful in beating the game on Impossible setting.
"I would offer congratulations were it
not for this tentacle gripping my leg."
(quote from "Cugel's Saga")

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Time
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Postby Time » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:34 pm

Many of the comments you will find here won't include Telepathic as a positive choice, usually, because of the points being wasted, could be better used toward other choices.

However, in single player matches, my friend and I agree, probably, the best choice is:
Unification, Aquatic, Telepathic, Production +1, Repulsive, -10 GC, -20 SD
This offers good production, a more pop, good food, great spy defense, a spy offense advantage, and the great advantage of being able to grab any planet you want, later in the game, without the need for transports.
I have actually, been on the run once (when I was 1st learning this game) flying from planet to planet, destroying defenses, mind controlling new planets to extend my range. Hillarious to me, annoying to the opponent.
Flexible and balanced.

Try that one, if you haven't already.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

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Cugel
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Postby Cugel » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:52 am

Thanks. :)
Many of the comments you will find here won't include Telepathic as a positive choice, usually, because of the points being wasted, could be better used toward other choices.

It seems to me that telepathic requires a very aggressive playing style where you grab new planets at every opportunity even if you're not ready to hold them against a determined counter attack. This can work on single player because the AI doesn't react (or prepare) intelligently -- just like I once found that an otherwise hard to beat chess program was a lot easier to play when being very aggressive as it seemed to have a hard time to adjust to the constant chaos of lost pieces even if I sacrificed many of my own.
However, in single player matches, my friend and I agree, probably, the best choice is:
Unification, Aquatic, Telepathic, Production +1, Repulsive, -10 GC, -20 SD
This offers good production, a more pop, good food, great spy defense, a spy offense advantage, and the great advantage of being able to grab any planet you want, later in the game, without the need for transports.
I have actually, been on the run once (when I was 1st learning this game) flying from planet to planet, destroying defenses, mind controlling new planets to extend my range. Hilarious to me, annoying to the opponent.
Flexible and balanced.

Try that one, if you haven't already.

I already tried a not too dissimilar one from the above mentioned list (namely "The Amazing Everything" -- difference: emphasizes research more than production). Even on impossible, that game was almost boringly steady. In the end I voted myself President to end the tedium of gobbling them all up (or doing in the Antarans). I'll try yours next.

I've had good experience with the aquatic trait, but it's been a while, therefore a question: does the aquatic bonus also hold for conquered (or repopulated) planets where the population is from other races than yours?
"I would offer congratulations were it
not for this tentacle gripping my leg."
(quote from "Cugel's Saga")

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Time
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Postby Time » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:33 pm

Any newly conquered race won't "become" your race picks.
You can transfer one of your Aquatic, Subterranean or Tolerant people to a newly conquered planet and that planet will be able to grow upto the new limit of that pop.
The original pop can only grow upto the original max limit, the rest will be the new pop.
So, yes an Aquatic Telepathic race could Mind Control a Subterranean race, then, transferr one of those pop to every one of its planets, thereby gaining more pop on each planet for more food, taxation, research, or whatever, another great advantage of a Telepathic race.
MOO1 Fan, MOO2 Fan, MOO3 needed too many changes = hopeless, getting older waiting for a MOO4 (still).

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Rocco
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Re: Are food replicators useful?

Postby Rocco » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:12 am

[...]recommendations to get the food replicators technology, but never with an explanation of why. Here is an example:
Custom race: Lithovore, [...] ... And now for the best part of this little trick. When you get the opportunity to get Food replicator DO IT! (Note you cannot research it your self so you have to steal or trade for it hence you are creative so you have tech to trade)

Anyone have an idea what the trick part of this "trick" is? [...]

* Necro alert. *

The "trick" part here is:
Lithovore race gets Evolutionary Mutation > de-selects his Lithovore trait by clicking Cybernetic and gets 10 additional mutation picks (need to de-select Cyber also then, author doesn't mention it, otherwise you have 6 additional picks).
Replicators come in play one turn afterwards when you actually loose Lithovore trait and your race suddenly needs food > use Replicators to produce it.


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