"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

[Catalyst_Kh]

Thanks, I appreciate it. I just can't understand why some people can be dissatisfied with my work when no one forces them to use it and which therewith is free.

Sometimes a thing could be so good, or people like it so much, that they tend to stretch it to their hypothetical ideal vision of this thing, what it “should be” in their opinion. And, therefore, they became dissatisfied about differences between that good thing and their ideal. So, cheer up Irakly! And never be in doubt that you are creating a very great “another moo”, step by step.

[Darza]

Rechecked few last pages, the single person who was expressed dissatisfaction with VDC mod was angra, who disliked a planned decrease of antaran power and cheap cost of ATU, but it was many pages ago, wonder why you decided to emphase on his words now. And cheer up Irakly, ofc. Dont make Argentina cry for you!

[Overlord2]

Lol, so the game continues...

Edit: here are some examples of dissatisfaction by darza:
- "Irakla emperor" is overeager with random updates and pathologically unable to do even most basic tests (i.e. not enough tests which lead to emergence of errors in the mod is pathology).
- job of Overlord2 mainly is in borrowing or direct stealing of other's ideas (i.e. there is no originality in VDC), plus adding some own random ones just to distract (i.e. there is no consistency in the mod conception), and also in creating of incomprehensibly and erroneous data files. (i.e. the supplementary documents are so bad one can hardly use them)
I am not considering correctness of these statements, but the fact they display dissatisfaction.

[Darza]

Hm, if it took 3 days of meditations about some post in some forum just to show to a world how faulty your logic is, then probably its a really important subject, so i would answer. Neither statements express dissatisfaction with VDC mod. Ill explain it on easy examples, just to help, if it wasnt obvious from start. Say, someone say "well, that drunken morons at Vsevlozhsk Ford plant forgot to screw a 2 wheels propery and also put a dead rat in gloves box and pissed on a back seat at Ford Focus i bought from them". Is it expressing a dissatisfaction with Ford Focus car model? Ofc no, its about production quality of some plant. Ford Focus model by default have no rats in box and have all whells screwed properly. But, if somebody would say "i dislike what that stupid model have no glass roof and a 3d television set in a back of driver seat, and also engine is 500 hp less than it should, and, it definitely should have a 4 wheel drive" - its expressing of dissatisfaction with Ford Focus model. I never sayd anything like this about VDC, all my statements falls into first example. And this is just a rules, because anything i say could be used in VDC mod, what is definitely not my goal. Hope that would help you learn to read.

[Overlord2]

While you reached master degree in trolling in logic your level is only advanced. I'll show its fault now:
First about "quality of the plant". If the quality of the plant is low it means that quality final product is low. It can't be otherwise. Because bad plant can't produce good quality thing. This follows from the definition of the "bad plant". That's why chinese products were treated low, because of their bad quality of production.
Second, if you start speaking of the bad quality of something doesn't it mean dissatisfaction? You know, you don't have reason to talk about pissed back seat of the car if it perfectly suits you. So mentioning this fact clearly shows dissatisfaction.

[Darza]

Well, as i see it didnt worked. Weird, that examples should be easy enough even for dedicated Cargo cult follower who are using a primeval thinking, eg our case. In fact after line about Chinese production quality, what clearly expressed a 0 understantment of stuff you trying to discuss on any level, it looks pointless, but ok, one last try, Cargo cult followers have troubles distinguising source, delivery, and product as it was just shown above. Of course "bad plants" can produce quality product, drity eatery can have the best food etc. But cargo cult followers cant make a distinction between source and a way of delievery, for them - if place is dirty - then there is no way it could have a good food and vice versa. More clearly - if someone would say what this pace is dirty, cargo cult follower would suppose what sayer mean what food is also bad. While it could be true in some cases, the last statement doiesnt follow from first on its own. For users of extremally autistic way of tihnking i could try to post it as: Plant not = product, in any aspects, if you say what plant is bad - it doesnt mean what product is bad, end vice versa. Plant = product - its archaic thought process of Cargo cult followers, like you. All i sayd is what i never expressed dissatifaction with product, that doesnt mean what im dont have it or have it, it just cannot be constructed from existing data i provided. Wonder why you still so willing to fail in anytihing you try, tho your last posts already would turn any reader with head from you, confiriming what anything you say is exactly "blahblahblah" as you brilliantly named it. Or your point is indeed to make sure what everyone would realize what you ignorant in everything?
And no, i dont have any degree neither in trolling or logic. Its just called contemporary thought process contrary to archaic one. Bearers of arhaic thought process is kids and followers of magical thinking.

[Overlord2]

Wow, you start hiding behind absolute bullshit to conceal the fact that your statements were expressing the dissatisfaction.

[Semmelbaecker]

overlord.. you forgot the first and only rule about trolls.. you cant get rid of them once they are stuck on your thread. its like dogs poo under your shoe. So while ignoring them might be stinky from time to time, its the only way to not get crazy.. you cant argue with dogs poo in order to make it less stinky.

[Darza]

Wise words, rare gem of the thread, fully agree.

[Overlord2]

It about you, darza

[Solarius Scorch]

Hi, I've just registered to say a few things on the VDC mod, but I found some sort of flame war which I don't even know what is all about. Oh well, I'll just ignore it and go straight to the point.

Well, my feelings are very mixed. What I like - A LOT - is the ship/systems stats and combat mechanics in general. I didn't get the chance to test it properly, but it looks very good. Another thing I would like to praise is the tech tree, which looks really interesting and living up to the mod's name.

What I didn't like at all are changes done to the races - there are so many picks that not only it's confusing but, first and foremost, the races' distinct flavours disappeared. Why are Humans at -10 in Ground Combat - are they weaker than most other races? Why nearly everyone is Aquatic? Perhaps it enhances the game somehow in the competition department, but it kills the experience completely for me. But well, I edited the races with a hex editor back to how they were (more or less), so it's not a problem for me personally.

However, the bigger problem is that playing the game as it is now is impossible with how the Antarans work. The only viably strategy is to settle as many planets as possible and hope you can outrun the Antarans. While this can be done, I think this game should be about building a star empire and dealing with competition, not play guerilla warfare against just one enemy empire that destroys one of your colonies every 1-5 turns or so. This turns the game upside down, and not in a good way.

To sum up: I'd keep the mod and play it seriously, but only if I manage to rehack the Antarans back into how they were in the vanilla (possibly keeping their updated ships, as well as big ships attacking you in later stages). Otherwise I'm just not interested.

[Overlord2]

Hi,

Thanks for positive feedback. Few comments on your points.
1) The races. To be competitive each race was given a capacity pick. That's why they were added aquatic/subt/tolerant. But that's the stock AI races...anyone is free not to choose a stock race, but create his own custom race.
2) Antarans strength was adjusted for advanced skill players. Though, they are a little too powerful atm. I was going to cut them a little with the next update. Unfortunately the update is delayed. I hope to finish it within a few weeks.

[BBalazs]

Overlod2, please check your PM inbox. There is something you might be interested in.

[Overlord2]

OK. Check the reply.

[Solarius Scorch]

Hello, thanks for the prompt answer.

1) The races. To be competitive each race was given a capacity pick. That's why they were added aquatic/subt/tolerant. But that's the stock AI races...anyone is free not to choose a stock race, but create his own custom race.

I understand that anyone can create a custom race, but still I want to play against original MoO civilizations; the ones present in the VDC mod are not only different, but sort of illogical, and therefore accept on the "suspension of disbelief" level. Of course it is a purely aesthetic issue, but still rather important. Having said that, I don't really mind since, as I explained before, I edited them back to how they were in the vanilla, with slight modifications.

2) Antarans strength was adjusted for advanced skill players. Though, they are a little too powerful atm. I was going to cut them a little with the next update. Unfortunately the update is delayed. I hope to finish it within a few weeks.

I agree that the Antarans are way too hardcore as they are right now, but it's only a part of the problem. The other part is that it completely changes the idea for the game, not just its difficulty. I play MoO to build a star empire and fight other star empires, and the Antarans destroying one of my system sometimes is good as an additional feature; while in the current VDC it's actually the MAIN feature of the game, since normal empire building is impossible due to their attacks. I don't think many MoO fans would appreciate such a shift, although I of course can't know this for sure.

Now, I realize that you can respond with "don't like the mod, don't play it" and of course you'd be right. However, the point is that I do actually like most of it, I just don't like the Antaran attacks almost every turn. Perhaps you could point me to the files when I can edit this particular feature to my preference? I'd be grateful for such information.