"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

Information, How-to's, and discussion about mod'ing Master of Orion II.
User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm
Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:40 am

Thanks for pointing for the bug. I will make the change in the following update.

othalan
Posts:2
Joined:Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:15 am

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby othalan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:37 am

Running VDC 58f, I just encountered this bug:

Attempting to refit a ship, I was given this message: "You do not have sufficient technology to build ships"

Turn #179 and I have built many ships but this is my first attempt at refitting a ship. Doing some experimentation, this appears with any game for VDC58f (any race, custom or predefined). I reverted to 58e which solved the problem.

I only tested my current game settings:
Difficulty: Hard
Galaxy Size: Medium
Galaxy Age: Average
Players: 8
Tech Level: Average

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:01 am

Can you please point which exe is giving this message? I think you have downloaded version with this bug slipped in. Later I re-uploaded 58f without this bug. Please try in the current link and tell if it is still there.
Basically, it is OCL_Improved bug, which keeps extracting/writing wrong tech fields required for refit. Sometimes when I pack the .exe I forget to check these fields. Should be TF 22 and TF 55 there.

othalan
Posts:2
Joined:Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:15 am

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby othalan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:26 pm

Can you please point which exe is giving this message? I think you have downloaded version with this bug slipped in. Later I re-uploaded 58f without this bug. Please try in the current link and tell if it is still there.
Basically, it is OCL_Improved bug, which keeps extracting/writing wrong tech fields required for refit. Sometimes when I pack the .exe I forget to check these fields. Should be TF 22 and TF 55 there.
I just checked and I do have the latest download, but this error only occurs for VDCOR.EXE.

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:38 pm

Right, VDCOR does get this error. I will make an update till the end of the week.

User avatar
Rocco
Posts:242
Joined:Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:16 am
Contact:

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Rocco » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:37 pm

got question on max pop of planets;
have modded huge planets to be 28 pop = 38 for Subt.
when you have biospheres and the city planning that should add to 45.
but game does not allow it, stays at 43 and pop#43 becomes yellow like conquered pop but is seen as an 'android' (but it is a regular pop) and cannot be moved a job field.
also, the pop counter value in upper right hand corner goes corrupt- reads: "43,-488k (+0k)"
think have read somehwere here about the issue before.

additionaly, i can keep building androids way past the planetary max pop limit.

do you know if something that can be done to fix, or should i mod back the max pop for huge?
I see in vdc it is 27/37, does that value allow for a max pop 44 when you have bio's and city planning?

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:54 pm

Max pop is capped at 42. You can't exceed this number or it will cause the crash. As for androids, its a known bug, vdc has nothing to do with it.

User avatar
Rocco
Posts:242
Joined:Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:16 am
Contact:

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Rocco » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:58 pm

ok, so I take it that you set max at 27/37 so you can add the city planning, but should not build the biospheres then.

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:33 am

VDC got this problem fixed too. If you build biosphere max pop will be still 42. There is a reference about it in the known issues on the front page.

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:12 pm

VDC updated (58h) adding the POST-Warp game setup: available for 1.40 it was broken for VDC. People who prefer faster games will like it.

User avatar
Dukinson
Posts:66
Joined:Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:02 pm
Location:San Fransiscro Bay Area

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Dukinson » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:41 pm

Overlord, I would like your opinion on a debate we've been having with Icemod. I'm sure you've quietly observed much of it. It's about battlescanners (to be free or not to be), improving or not improving targeting computers, all to bring beams up in strength. Incase you don't already know it, I am of the opinion that giving away battlescanners for free and/or boosting targetting computers devalues SA and SD picks/technologies, warlord, crew training and shakes up existing balance so much so that it would be smarter to just nurf missiles until they are in line with the strength of beam weapons. I haven't really played your mod (because strategic mode is broken), but I was curious how you feel on the matter and how you balanced this "problem" with VDC.
A cob of corn in every pot, an outpost ship with fuel tanks in every garage, and two command points for every colony!

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:55 pm

Hi,
First of all I would like to correct you, my nick is Overlord2! Secondly, I'am not much interested in other mods than VDC. If you would like to discuss VDC or have some questions, feel free to ask.
About Battle Scanner technology in VDC. With current beam attack/beam defense ratio battle scanner is a must have tech if you ever want to use beams. Consequently its free. In princinple, one could remove necessity of using Battle Scanner by transfering its bonus to beam computers, i.e. increasing beam computers by the value of battle scanner. And give battle scanner slight bonus, which doesn't make it a must have tech, which changes the balance. But I don't like such approach, because I prefer specialization in ship designs rather than universality.

User avatar
Dukinson
Posts:66
Joined:Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:02 pm
Location:San Fransiscro Bay Area

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Dukinson » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:25 pm

Hahah, fair enough. What if I call you O2? Kinda like Oxygen. :)

So you feel similar to Rocco and some others I've been talking with. Would you not say this necessity of beam attack is born from the strength of missiles? What if missiles were reduced in power, especially early on, allowing beams to gain momentum more slowly. This would give a stronger value to underused picks like ship attack/defense, warlord, and targeting computer techs over research techs. Seems to me focusing on the strength of missiles would be another way to do this, if not a better way. When battlescanners are free or targeting computers get boosted, no one misses hardly at all after round one. Each of our ships close in full or near full movement and round 2 it's almost all direct hits. In this style of battle, I completely drop evasion and just focus on having the absolute most firepower. In strategic, BS is autoequipped on all ships with no loss of space. Ofcourse you won't care about that unless you fix strategic mode in VDC.
A cob of corn in every pot, an outpost ship with fuel tanks in every garage, and two command points for every colony!

User avatar
Overlord2
Posts:661
Joined:Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Overlord2 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:13 pm

Would you not say this necessity of beam attack is born from the strength of missiles?
No, primary factor, which affects beam attack value is ship-to-ship attack/defense ratio. This is the first thing which should be balanced. The reason behind is that you can destroy enemy ships with beams and in some cases retreat before missiles hit you.
Basically the beams as the most effective weapons should be balanced the first. Thereupon I would state a thing, which should be taken into consideration when balancing beams: as soon as the beams become available for ship-to-ship combat other kind of weapons become obsolete. Missiles and other kind of indirect weapons could be used effectively only until the moment beams become available, what happens when you research respective technology (either beam computer or get race attack bonus_e.g. mutation to attack in VDC).
What if missiles were increased? in power, especially early on, allowing beams to gain momentum more slowly. This would give a stronger value to underused picks like ship attack/defense, warlord, and targeting computer techs over research techs. Seems to me focusing on the strength of missiles would be another way to do this, if not a better way.
Balance between war techs or traits vs economy much depends on economy model of the mod(game) and ability to realize military advantage if you go military way. If one's economy grows faster than you can realize military advantage then those military traits are ineffective. While each military trait or decision should be analyzed individually.
If you want to say that artificial increase of the strength of missiles will help war picks become more viable this is not true in case of VDC, since there are many other alternative technologies which can hold the missiles: cheap jammers, antimissile rockets, pulsars, spatial compressors later...I guess you are asking this question carrying in mind the balance of weapons which is present in original moo2. In classic moo2 indeed only two kind of weapons are usable: missiles and beams. Other weapons are excluded from the game because they are either untakable or ineffective. Maybe one exception for am torpedoes. Increasing beam defense or hit points for the missiles in classic moo2 may indeed force to use additional beam attack bonus to be able to shoot down the missiles (or beam defense to get higher missile evasion). Note that such tech as antimissile rockets doesn't care about hp of the missile or its beam defense parameter.
When battlescanners are free or targeting computers get boosted, no one misses hardly at all after round one. Each of our ships close in full or near full movement and round 2 it's almost all direct hits. In this style of battle, I completely drop evasion and just focus on having the absolute most firepower.
This is true, but in VDC it is offset with hp of the missiles and quantity of them. You need really high miniaturization of beams to deal with the missiles solely with beams. Also electronic computer + battle scanner is usually not enough. You need either mutation to +offense or get higher computer. Availability of torpedoes in VDC forces the player to use jammers on wider scale. Here the role of defense parameter becomes quite substantial.

User avatar
Dukinson
Posts:66
Joined:Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:02 pm
Location:San Fransiscro Bay Area

Re: "Very Difficult Choice" Mod

Postby Dukinson » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:33 pm

What if missiles were increased? in power, especially early on, allowing beams to gain momentum more slowly. This would give a stronger value to underused picks like ship attack/defense, warlord, and targeting computer techs over research techs. Seems to me focusing on the strength of missiles would be another way to do this, if not a better way.
Maybe I missed it, but are you misquoting me for a laugh? hahah. Early on missiles are the enemy and everyone uses them. 2 shot rack retreat and to beat all space monsters including Orion. This is a sign the weapon is too good, early on at least. Later on beams seem the clear winner.
A cob of corn in every pot, an outpost ship with fuel tanks in every garage, and two command points for every colony!


Return to “Game Modifications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests