"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

[Overlord2]

Made quick test in small galaxy. There were about 30 attacks total with last one around 120th turn. Most fleets consisted of destroyers or battleships, there were few fleets with titans and one with doomstar. Interesting moment - all fleets after doomstar were like starting ones(3-5 destroyers) though maybe it is just coincidence.

Do you say it still sends destroyers after doomstars or it was in 43b? I hoped it was fixed in 43c...

@Catalyst
Please stop argument with Darza, you can't make him to do anything, besides he is here just for trolling, while we are here for finding something new about the game and sharing information.

[Catalyst_Kh]

and replay a whole moo1

That's a killing argument, i can't beat that.
/me had fainted

[Darza]

Catalyst, was bored from moo1 tonight and tried that settings, finished less than in 70 turns, before any antarans apeeared, spent 0 RP at whole game, just to make it harder, so it was ended in midsixties, would be much earlier otherwise.

[Catalyst_Kh]

I so wish you would show saves, or at least your race for this purpose, i am at least 20 moves behind.

[Darza]

Join irc and we can discuss it.

[Overlord2]

Join irc and we can discuss it.

Please. It would stop flooding the thread with pointless arguments.

[Catalyst_Kh]

That 4 systems before attack rule looks too awkward and artificial, I thought about alternatives, to make the game straight and unrestricted by such rules (besides no omniscient at start). Did you considered the following idea: in standard large galaxy blitzer, most likely, needs 2 colony ships plus 2 outposts to reach his opponent, that is 1200 BC in total. If you just make the outpost cost of 300 BC each – it will solve the problem in very smooth way. I didn't found any drawbacks to expensive outpost idea, could be that 250 or 350 would be better, but still. Besides, if opponent takes a risk in expanding to the center then blitzer can reach him with 3 or even 2 outposts, but that would be opponents responsibility, one more rock-paper-scissors verge of the game. Or blitzer may take time to research fuel instead, which in essence will again balance the game. Or he can get fuel by arti system, too nice lucky chance, but very rare, shouldn't be a problem. Was there other suggestions to eliminate the need of 4 systems rule?

[Overlord2]

I don't play the 4 system rule, because it is inconsistent. I stick to 115 turns of peace rule or no rules at all. Also I believe increasing cost of outpost to 300 BC is not justified, since it will limit the gameplay other than blitzing too. I believe tech tree and other elements of the game should be adjusted so that blitz not to be 100% win. I am going to make some changes in this direction in the next update.

[Catalyst_Kh]

Also I believe increasing cost of outpost to 300 BC is not justified, since it will limit the gameplay other than blitzing too.

Please tell an example, i can't see any.

[Overlord2]

Also I believe increasing cost of outpost to 300 BC is not justified, since it will limit the gameplay other than blitzing too.

Please tell an example, i can't see any.

Well, several reasons: generally, when preparing an attack you need lots of outposts for maneuvering. But it can be substituted by transports - e.g. you bomb enemy planet to 1 pop left, invade it and anihilate 1 pop in several turns. Before it is anihilated it works as an outpost. However demo cannot anihillate pop, so it will be under disadvantage.
Secondly, it makes deuterium cells uneffective, since with higher cells you will need much less outposts.
Thirdly it limits tactics, cause outposts can be built anywhere now, but it won't be with cost of 300. With less number of outposts on-map tactics will be poor.
Fourth reason - pure tech races like dict +2 research with no prod will be badly hurt, since they lack good production capabilities.
And finally, by increasing cost of outpost so high you kill blitz completely, which is not my aim.

[Catalyst_Kh]

Sad that outpost cost is so dependent. But 115 moves of piece is killing blitzing much more surely anyway. It would be glorious to tweak something in the game, which will allow to eliminate both 115 moves and 4 planets rules, even if those tweaks won't be very smooth.

[Mustard]

I definately agree to outpost price rise it weakens agro races somewhat

[Mustard]

Antarans seem waaaay to strong, trying my third attempt now but surviving there attacks seems very hard, maybe impossible unless your going for Darza style super agro

[Catalyst_Kh]

If number of your planets is big enough you can just rebuild wiped planets and don't bother to lose any ships fighting Antarans, preserving your fleet to attack AIs. It will slow you down, but AI still can't do any harm to you. But it is quite grievous way to play, thus all this discussions here.

[Overlord2]

Antarans seem waaaay too strong, trying my third attempt now but surviving there attacks seems very hard, maybe impossible unless your going for Darza style super agro

I already mentioned, going to decrease the power of antarans in the next update.

If number of your planets is big enough you can just rebuild wiped planets and don't bother to lose any ships fighting Antarans, preserving your fleet to attack AIs. It will slow you down, but AI still can't do any harm to you. But it is quite grievous way to play, thus all this discussions here.

AI still sux because of wrong priorities in research. Can't do anything about it right now, but I will be addressing this problem.