"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

[Overlord2]

Hi,

I've got a game here that keeps crashing when i hit end turn. This is right after i noticed that "conquered androids" mysteriously appeared on some of my colonies(i dont have the tech to build them, they just spawned of their own will). Any idea whats going on here?

Looks like a bug. I made all AI players human and checked what they were doing. Seems nothing wrong, but when the last player hits turn game crashes invariably. This game uses memory badly, and when something exceeds the limits it crashes. Remember it was written back in 1996. My advice - try using less AI players.

Side questions :
-What is the point of androids currently?

The point is to get huge pop quickly. Especially the workers, which are the most useful.

-How do i get tractor beams? I can never get them even with a creative race.

Tractors were removed from the tech tree because it is not balanced. If you use ALT+einstein code you will be able to get them (as well as all other techs ).

[Spoon]

Heya
I tried your mod today but quickly found out that suddenly *every* ai race is repulsive... That quickly killed my joy to play.
Now I understand from reading a few posts in this thread that this mod has a lot of multiplayer balancing going on but seeing as I don't any friends that play this game I'm 'stuck' with the ai. Now I like the changes you have made to the race creation and techtree and would really appreciate it if you could maybe make the ai... less repulsive :p
(or tell me how to do it myself)

[Abemad]

Heya
I tried your mod today but quickly found out that suddenly *every* ai race is repulsive... That quickly killed my joy to play.
Now I understand from reading a few posts in this thread that this mod has a lot of multiplayer balancing going on but seeing as I don't any friends that play this game I'm 'stuck' with the ai. Now I like the changes you have made to the race creation and techtree and would really appreciate it if you could maybe make the ai... less repulsive :p
(or tell me how to do it myself)

See here

OK I will make a separate race set for single player.

That would be fantastic =) especially since I turned a friend into master of orion 2 (using your mod)

OK, here you are. Only two repulsive races left out of 13 - silicoid and meklar.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cvcnecqo3 ... CESTUF.LBX

Btw, I'd advise to use cryogen.exe utility each time to help uncreative races.
It amends the tech tree for uncreative races by placing few "must have" techs instead of other ones.

[Spoon]

I thank you my good sir!

[lostminstrel]

Are the download links working properly? I get to a "this file was removed" type of page.

I've never tried VDC, but there seems to be lots of positive feedback in this thread and I like some of your changes (that people have mentioned in this thread).

Now, my home computer is dead, but I'd like to read the change notes/log if possible. Could you link that?

Also, was making VDC difficult? I'd like to try my hand at modding once I get a new computer, but using a hex editor seems difficult. How do you know what's what with a hex editor?

[MadViper]

At least the "Mediafire" link in the 1. post of this tread of the newest mod-version should work properly. I just tried it again.

I personally use a slightly different Version of the vdcor.exe, because i altered the Galaxy Generator a bit to produce a Galaxy i prefer for Single and Multiplayer Games (a huge galaxy with only 36 instead of 80 starsystems to increase the speed of the turns and allowing better defensive tactics due to increased distancebetween the stars, which usually causes no 1-Turn hopping between the systems possible anymore).

You may download the altered Version here:

http://ge.tt/8oepnXC

If you choose to play in a medium Map, there will be a huge map with fewer starsystems created. In addition there is an alternate list of races, which i prefer as KI-Opponents and we use these List for Multiplayer Games with friends.

[Overlord2]

Are the download links working properly? I get to a "this file was removed" type of page.

Deleted not working links.

Now, my home computer is dead, but I'd like to read the change notes/log if possible. Could you link that?

In the installation archive there is an .xls file with complete description of the changes. Also there is readme file with version to version changelog.

Also, was making VDC difficult?

Yes, it was.
Mostly (99%) I used custom modding tools like OCLplus, pickhack1.0 and lately OCL_Improved. The OCL_Improved includes almost every item, which can possibly be modded.

I'd like to try my hand at modding once I get a new computer, but using a hex editor seems difficult. How do you know what's what with a hex editor?

With hex editor you can change known constants directly in the .exe file. To understand where is located looked constant you need primary research. For that purpose you use other tools, the best known is IdaPro Disassembler and HexRay decompiler (extension to IdaPro). Use of those tools implies knowledge of ASM code and C. Also you can try to use the SoftIce debugger.
Personally I am not familiar with those tools, but I have a friend who helps finding new stuff. I should make notice that it is very much time consuming and labour consuming work.

[lostminstrel]

Thanks for the replies!

Got the download working - and will give the changelog a peek for now since I cannot play games at the moment.

It really seems like an impressive piece of work. From what you said, I don't have the know-how to make a mod myself.

I wanted to do stuff like make "armor transports" (can build at colonies wtih armor barracks and allows you to invade with "armor" units), and make fighters "shield piercing" by default - since they fly close enough.

I also wanted to rebalance the race picks to give Feudal and Dict. some love - like making it so certain buildings (planetary defenses) also give Feudal a small moral bonus, or making it so spies cost less for Dicts.

I'll take a look at your changelog now to see how you balanced things though. Though I can't play VDC yet, I appreciate the hard work!

[Overlord2]

Well, technically it wasn't that difficult as long as it was the work within custom tools, and most of the changes could be done via these tools. More difficult was finding right places for the things and giving right values to the weapons and all other stuff.
about your wishes:
- making Armor transport won't be possible without reprogramming;
- make fighters "shield piercing" by default - also requires major reprogramming.
- giving Feudal and Dict. certain buildings (planetary defenses) also give Feudal a small moral bonus, or making it so spies cost less for Dicts. - this requires even more reprogramming.
Generally what custom tools allow or even hex editor is changing values of the constants, while what you want requires rewriting of the moo2 code. Without adequate knowledge it's not possible. Hope this helps

[lostminstrel]

I was afraid you would say something like that, ha ha ha!

Since I've never done hex anything, I don't know what is possible and impossible.

I thought that since some things are already "shield piercing", there would just be a value to modify to make other things the same, and that kind of stuff.

Or, since Dicts. and Feudals get +10 moral from the Psionics tech, but Demo and Uni don't, there would be a way to give other techs a unique moral boost to just Dicts. and Feudals.

If there a way to hide certain techs at least? For example, Lithovores don't get any food techs, and Uni can't research morale techs. Those techs are removed from their tech trees. Can similar "removal" be done for other conditions?

[Overlord2]

I thought that since some things are already "shield piercing", there would just be a value to modify to make other things the same, and that kind of stuff.

The only thing which is naturally shield piercing is the particle beam. If you research particle beam then all your interceptors start using it and become shield peircing. However this shield piercing effect can be stopped by the hard shields.

Or, since Dicts. and Feudals get +10 moral from the Psionics tech, but Demo and Uni don't, there would be a way to give other techs a unique moral boost to just Dicts. and Feudals.

The psionics tech giving moral bonus was hardcoded. If you want other things to increase moral you got to add special code for this. Theoretically it is possible, but not so easy.

If there a way to hide certain techs at least? For example, Lithovores don't get any food techs, and Uni can't research morale techs. Those techs are removed from their tech trees. Can similar "removal" be done for other conditions?

You can remove some techs from the tech tree altogether, i.e. without conditions. Placing conditions implies introducing new conditions not present in the game, in other words adding special code, which is not possible without reprogramming.

[lostminstrel]

Hmmm, it seems like it would be hard to do some of the things I wanted to do. Under such conditions, it seems very difficult to balance the game!

I'll have to give VDC a try once I get a computer again to see how you did. A lot of your changes seem good, but I still want to see how the game plays with them.

I've never played online with the community. Has VDC become the standard now though?

[Overlord2]

I've never played online with the community. Has VDC become the standard now though?

Yes, it did. But not many regular players atm.

[lostminstrel]

Then I will try to join once I replace my computer!

I'll probably be very bad though. I haven't mastered growing my population or stock-piling PP.

One other question about modding. I saw in another thread that when ground combat occurs, it is really just 1 vs. 1 - and when a soldier dies, the next one steps up.

This makes Heavy G. and Power Armor not function realistically. Under that system, having "2 hits" just means they need to lose twice in 1 vs. 1 before the next soldier steps up.

I don't suppose its possible to make GC more of a free for all, rahter than a 1 vs. 1, without serious reprogramming, is it?

[Overlord2]

I am not sure where you took it from that it is 1 v 1 battle....Also what you see on the screen could be absolutely different from the real calculations of gc. I have made gc calculator in my .xls file and it provides rather accurate results/predictions.
As for reprogramming of gc function, yes, it will be very difficult. I surely cannot do it myself.