"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

[Green_Knight]

Read for a new round of MOO2 - I'll definitely be trying out the new VDC.

[Overlord2]

I have already received feedback that ground installations combined with accessible battle station became too powerful Practice will show though.

[LCinn]

First of all, thank you so much for your work on VDC (a lot of posts like this in this thread, and well-deserved!). I like it a lot. I love how you managed to shuffle things around and make them more interesting while still maintaining an organization that makes sense conceptually (even more than vanilla, actually ).

Anyway, little question. In the latest .rar's I find only VDCGM2.exe; the other executables seem to be missing (at least, here on my side). Is that supposed to be the case? Personally I prefer VDCREG

[Overlord2]

Thanks for positive feedback.
As for the VDCREG, it hasn't been updated lately because of time constraints, but I will be updating VDCREG very soon.

[LCinn]

Ah, I figured it might be something like that. Thanks!
Well, I guess I'll need to conquer galaxies full of useful star systems for a while. The inconvenience!

[Overlord2]

VDC 36g uploaded with VDCREG and VDCOR restored.

[Astax]

If you do not follow the changes it's hard to map them over time :/ I think this update the values in yellow were changed? So Tolerant and Omni?

[Overlord2]

Oops, forgot to update that sheet
Picks change include -
demo: 13
chara: 2

[MadViper]

Hi!
We (some Friends and me) are playing this new Mod for several Time.

We usually choose a huge Galaxy and fill up the remaining Playerslots with KI Players.

But there is a problem:
The KI players often Choose -10 Spy (even with demo) and therefore it is much too easy to steal Techs from them.
To leave Ki Races out completely is considered boring by my friends and me. Die KI at least force players to expand more careful, research at least for some Weapon-Techs and build some Ships at the early state of the game, which delays the civil development. (we forbid to invade KI Race planets, because its much too easy to get very strong Pop from them, so they are just pain in die ass and have to be wiped out like Monsters for further expansion)

Question: Is it possible to forbid certain racepics for die KI races or Set the list of racepics the KI uses to a fixed value?
We decided to use a Fixed Racepic-List for our Games and it would be nice, if the KI players would stick to stat fixed list as well.
Die List of standard Races in this mod which is used by the KI is just *censored* (let me think of an diplomatic description) lets say "not acceptable at all".



The usage of a Fixed Racepiclist has two advantages:

1. It is more easy to Balance the Races to each other, because we just leave out some certain (we think) too strong combos. So all players still may take their individual preferences (=take the race they want from the list) but all players have more equal chances to win.

2. The Races keep mostly of their their individual Abilities, have to be played differently and almost all advantages or disadvantages are used in at least one Race.

I think that there may be a second balance Problem:

Possible enveloping Weapons (fusion beam, antimatter torp, proton torp) are a little bit too big in comparision to other weapons. Is it possible to change the +100% size for specialisation "enveloping" to +50% size? The Plasma Cannon is great, there is no need of further change.

[Overlord2]

Hi,

The current stock races are races most used in MP games. However when you play vs AI on impossible level it can add/remove some of the picks, so it is very difficult to balance races, because you don't know what it will be adding/removing (it can change government too, this is how you can see demo with -spy). On normal level or easy level it maynot be doing so. Hence it is diffucult to advise how to avoid AI races being nonoptimal. You can create a new custom stock race set if you don't like this one, or give me the list, I will make one for you.

As for enveloping mod space I think the current value is OK. For analysis purposes you just need to determine the functional usage of each type of the weapon and see if it meets the needs or not. For example fusion beam is mainly a good point defense weapon, am torpedoes are good damage dealers, which cannot be shot compared to missiles, protons are good too (forgot to update its damage last time, though I was planning). If I decrease enveloping space consumption those weapons might get too effective. So I don't think it is justified. But you are free to change values for other ones, if current values doesn't look good to you. You could use new OCL_Improved utility and GUI for it.

[MadViper]

You got the point.

You wrote "Fusion Beam is mainly a good point defense weapon"

At least it should be this way.

But in the actual mod the laser-cannon beats the Fusion Beam at their effective damage/Room Value, no matter at which technology status you are. Even if both weapons are miniaturized to lowest level, the PV Laser does far more damage (1 PV NR Laser cannon does always 4*3=12 Damage, the 7 Bacic Damage are rounded up to 4 somehow, Weaponstats read 1-3, but 4 is the correct Value*) than the PV Fusion Beam (8-16 Damage but double Space cost). In the actual Mod there is no reason to use the fusion beam at all unless you have serious hit-problems (fusion beam has +20% to hit, because laser uses autofire). Furthermore the pv laser cannon is even more better to shoot at mid-range than the pv fusion cannon if you need to shoot the pv weapons active.

* The heavy mount laser description reads 10 max damage, but actually it does 11 damage per shot the 7*1,5=10,5 are rounded up as well.

Here we have a little space-comparison list of the fusion beam and the laser cannon:


Technology status Fusion Physics:

Fusionbeam: PV, 360° : 4 Room per Weapon
Laser: PV, 360°, NR : 2 Room per Weapon

At this technology state the laser is far better than fusion beam.

Technology status Tachyon Physics:
Fusionbeam: PV, 360° : 3 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Cont : 5 Room per Weapon
Laser: PV, 360° Autofire, NR : 3 Room per Weapon
PV, 360° Autofire, NR, Cont : 4 Room per Weapon

At this technology state the laser is far better than fusion beam.

AntiMatter Physic:

Fusionbeam: PV, 360°, Enveloping : 5 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Enveloping, Cont : 6 Room per Weapon
Laser: PV, 360°, Autofire, NR : 3 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Autofire, NR, Cont : 3 Room per Weapon

At this technology state the laser is a little bit better than fusion beam.

Artificial Gravity:

Fusionbeam: PV, 360°, Enveloping : 4 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Enveloping, Cont : 5 Room per Weapon
Laser: PV, 360°, Autofire, NR : 2 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Autofire, NR, Cont : 2 Room per Weapon

At this technology state the laser is far better than fusion beam

Subraum Physics:

Fusionbeam: PV, 360°, Enveloping : 2 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Enveloping, Cont : 3 Room per Weapon
Laser: PV, 360°, Autofire, NR : 1 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Autofire, NR, Cont : 2 Room per Weapon

At this technology state the laser is far better than fusion beam.

MultiPhased Physics:

Fusionbeam: PV, 360°, Enveloping : 2 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Enveloping, Cont : 2 Room per Weapon
Laser: PV, 360°, Autofire, NR : 1 Room per Weapon
PV, 360°, Autofire, NR, Cont : 2 Room per Weapon

At this technology state the laser is still better, even if you have miniaturized them both to equal max level.

Here is the racepic-list we use:

Alkari: +2 Food, +1 Research, +0,5 MC, +50 Def, -25 Attack, -10 Groundcombat, +10 spy, Democracy, Large Home, Poor Home
Bulrathi: +80 growth, +2Food, +1Prod, +25 Attack, +20Groundcombat, Feudal, High-G, Large Home, Rich Home, Warlord
Darlok: +80 Growth, +2 Food, +1 Prod, spy+10, Feudal, Large Home, Rich Home, Telephatic, Stealthy Ships
Elerian: +2Food, +1Prod, +0,5MC, +35 Def, Feudal, Rich Home, Telepatic, Omniscient, Warlord
Gnolams: +80 Growth, +2Food, +1MC, +10 Spy, Dict, low-G, Subterranean, Large Home, Fantastic Trader, Lucky
Humanse: +2Food, -1 Prod, +1 Research, +1BC, Democracy, +10 Spy, Charismatic, Fanstastic Traders
Klackon: +50 Growth, +2Food, +2 Production, Unification, Large Home, Uncreative
Meklar: -0,5 Food, +2 Prod, -20 Defense, +25Attack, Dict, Cybernetic, Tolerant
Mrrshan: +50% Growth, +2Food, +1 Prod, +75Attack,+10 Groundcombat, Dict, Large Home, Poor Home, Warlord
Psilon: +2Food, +2Research, +0,5 MC, Dict, Low-G,Large Home, Rich Home, Creative
Sakkra: +100%Growth, +2food, +1Prod, Feudal,High-G, Subterranean, Large Home,Rich Home, Lucky
Silicoid: +50%Growth, -20 Defense, -10Groundcombat, Dict, High-G, Subterranean, Lithovore, Repulsive
Trilarian: +50% Growth, +1Food, +0,5 MC, Dict, Aquatic, Large Home, Trans dimensional

[Overlord2]

Actually the matter with laser cannon is not exactly the way you described. First of all its damage isn't 4*3 but rather average between 1-4. Maybe with best probability it does make 4 damage per beam, but certainly not always. The damage is very much dependent upon your beam attack value, i.e. computer type. If you take the standard situation, when your ship is equipped with electronic computer, you notice that laser cannon with autofire mod and especially without continuos mod does less damage then the same tech level fusions. I deliberately carried out an experiment, which proves my point.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/z2dqlrmyu6dg4uz/SAVE6.GAM
Experiment details:
50 space pd weapons were compared vs zort armored and antimatter drive interceptors and bombers.
on subspace level laser cannon gets max miniaturization which equals 25 pd beams with cont, nrd and autofire mod or 50 beams with no continuous mod.
pd fusion beams space consumption on subspace level is is 3, hence 17 beams.
With max miniaturization (phasors level) it gets 2 space per beam, or 25 beams.
According to results got in experiment 25 fusion beams always do more damage than both 25 or 50 laser beams.
While 17 pd fusion beams do more or the same damage as 25 laser beams, 50 laser beams without cont mod do a little more damage than 17 fusion beams, but less than 25 fusion beams.
With good computer situation may change and 50 laser beams will doing more damage, than fusions. But in standard conditions described above fusion beat lasers.

Edit: Found error in previous test file. My conclusion was wrong. Electronic computer/battle scanner pd laser cannon indeed beats pd fusion beam of equal tech level. I will see what I can do about it.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/7t4atnzi6uoc0cm/SAVE6.GAM


Here is the racestuf file you were asking:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zctn776mm ... CESTUF.LBX

[MadViper]

Many thanks to for the modified LBX-File! I appreciate it much!

I would appreciate the alternation for Env-Weapons from +100 to +50%. It would strengthen both the somewhat weak Fusion Beams and the Torpedos.

In the actual Version of this mod there is the shield strength in midgame increased (due to +100% multiphased shields which are somewhat easy accessible) and a little boost of the lower env-Weapons (Antimatter torp + Fusion beam) would compensate this a bit. Proton torp need this little boost as well, because you need far more deep research in the power tree to use them well. And if you do deep research in the power tree you maybe lack of a good armour/shield or civil tech. (because you cant do deep research everywhere )

[Overlord2]

VDC 36h uploaded, with fusion beam damage increased.
Proton torps damage also increased by 2 points;

[StriderV]

Is there a change log for VDC or a total list of changes anywhere? I'm debating whether to use this mod and it is easier for me to read a text file than to install it and try to find all the differences.