"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

Information, How-to's, and discussion about mod'ing Master of Orion II.
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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:51 am

I think I've found a bug in VDC34.

Universal Antidote's tech description claims it increases pop growth by 60%. But it actually only increases it by 30%. The increase in pop growth I am seeing is identical for getting for Microbiotics, which should be 30%. Tested this a decent amount and I am pretty sure its only giving 30% instead of 60.


Thanks for the great mod and the frequent support. :)
You probably mixed antidote with microbiotics. Microbiotics do provide 30% growth increase, while antidote gives full +60% (checked today).
Thanks for appreciation.

Alexfrog
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Postby Alexfrog » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:50 pm

Apparently the issue is that they dont stack, but I expected them to stack.

Gorean
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Postby Gorean » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:42 pm

I thought that antidote replaced microbiotics when if it was taken subsequently.
Vita multis dat nimis, satis nulli.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:43 pm

I thought that antidote replaced microbiotics when if it was taken subsequently.
right, it does so. Also in description of the tech it is clearly mentioned its not cumulative with microbiotics.

chimera
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Postby chimera » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:17 pm

Just getting back to this.
A fresh install from CD corrected the problem.
Thanks for your time :)

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:39 pm

VDC 34b Uploaded. Some nice new features.

Alexfrog
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Postby Alexfrog » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:41 pm

So the changes:
+1BC back to 12 (from 11). Hurts the money races a bit.

Aquatic from 9 to 8, now 1 cheaper than Sub. This is good, because Subterranean is basically better than Aquatic, at least when you play with fixedhw planets=5 and begin with a Gaia in the home system. (The benefit of Aqua making your homeworld a Gaia isn't as cool when you have easy access to a Gaia already). Aquatic tends to start out slightly faster but have lower pop caps later on. I like the change, its interesting.

Farming -1/2 to -6 from -5. I dont think I would ever pick this if you made it -11, so whatever. (But maybe I'm wrong).

Attack+75 is 8 instead of 9? I think these new bigger +Attack and defense picks that are very expensive just arent usable. You hurt your economy too much at that price. I wish there were smaller but much lower cost offensive options. Right now there isnt much to do with 1 leftover point. There is basically just charismatic, and thats only available for non-repulsive people. Would it be interesting if there was a small Defense or Attack bonus for 1 pt (probably defense, since even +5 attack would give you initiative in tied cases which would be good).
Edit: Charismatic changed back from 1 to 2 at some point, so there really is nothing.
Last edited by Alexfrog on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexfrog
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Postby Alexfrog » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:50 pm

Another idea I have:

Right now, its kindof annoying if the negative picks you want to take add up to -12 instead of -11, causing you to take a littler one that actually isnt what you want.

For example, lets say I wanted to take -1 Science (-9) and -Defense (-3), just theoretically. I couldnt do this. If I take -1 science I must combo it with -Ground combat. Or maybe I want to take -Def, -Att, and -Spy. I cant. If I take -Attack i basically have to take -Ground to end up at -11.


So what can we do about this?
Make the total negative picks allowed -12 instead, and change Lucky to -1 (because it doesnt do anything, we all play without random events, right?). Then take one point off your starting to even it out.

Now, races are exactly as they were before but they take lucky (does nothing) to even out. And a race that wants to take a combination of negative picks totalling -12 instead of -11 still works (you just dont take lucky). Total positive starting points is 30 instead of 31, so that when you add 12 its the same.


Thoughts? I think this would allow more flexibility in negative picks. Its main use is that if you take -Attack, you arent shoehorned into also taking -Ground. Maybe you are going for a teleporters strategy and want a different negative.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:25 am

Many things to cover :)
+1BC back to 12 (from 11). Hurts the money races a bit
Since aqua is 8 in order not to allow aqua, demo, +1BC, +100 pop race combo +1 BC had to be increased.
Generally I assign picks value on the basis of the races you can construct out of the picks. This way I allow or disallow possible races.
Farming -1/2 to -6 from -5. I dont think I would ever pick this if you made it -11, so whatever.
-Food is playable, but previously, when charismatic was only -1 it was very attractive to consruct non-repulsive race based on this particular pick (a single moral or food leader compensated your -food negative and further you got only new bonuses). However after increasing cost of charismatic, -food + charismatic combo doesn't show powerful anymore. Btw, you overestimate negative effect of - food.
Attack+75 is 8 instead of 9?
Just to keep previous combo with cash +1 BC.
Right now, its kindof annoying if the negative picks you want to take add up to -12 instead of -11, causing you to take a littler one that actually isnt what you want.

For example, lets say I wanted to take -1 Science (-9) and -Defense (-3), just theoretically. I couldnt do this. If I take -1 science I must combo it with -Ground combat. Or maybe I want to take -Def, -Att, and -Spy. I cant. If I take -Attack i basically have to take -Ground to end up at -11.
Hmm. Generally ground combat negative has much less impact on your performance than -ship defence or -spy or moreover -attack. But if you want to avoid taking -gc when taking -attack, then you could take repulsive.
So what can we do about this?
Make the total negative picks allowed -12 instead.Total positive starting points is 30 instead of 31, so that when you add 12 its the same
And repulsive -6? This will hurt a bit one of the possible non-repulsive set, namely: -def, -gc, -spy, poor hw, but generally it is possible, yes. If you are concerned about - research only, then it is possible to make it -8. Then the effect would be the same as making max negative =-12. Alternatively -research could be max negative straight without need of taking extra negatives. I price - research less than -prod or -cash for one only reason that in x-ways telepathic race gets hurt much less by taking - research than -prod or cash. For duels - research is heavy negative.
I will think about this proposition, but to tell the truth I don't find it urgent.

As for making lucky -1, I disagree. Lucky positively has an appreciable effect, I don't think it should become a prerogative pick for any case. And it does do something even when the events are turned off. For example it has non-zero probability of 'scientific stumble', which gives you not one tech from the tech field you were researching, but the whole tech field.
Thoughts? I think this would allow more flexibility in negative picks. Its main use is that if you take -Attack, you arent shoehorned into also taking -Ground. Maybe you are going for a teleporters strategy and want a different negative.
Hum, I believe when your strategy is teleporters take-over you wouldn't take -attack in the first place. But generally you have the opportunity to mutate and alter your -gc negative to +20 ground combat positive. Since you are already -attack, you don't care about initiative...

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:57 pm

VDC Updated to v35.
14/02/11
Re-updated to v35a.

Depesz
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Word of appreciation

Postby Depesz » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:16 pm

Hi! I recently started playing orion2 (for the first time , better late than never.) But I already got into it and played your mod, it's great! Had to change the race abilities with an editor to play single but still. I just wanted you to know that I like it, so that you will have motivation for more ? :)

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:43 pm

Hi Depesz,
Where did you learn about moo2?
You said you had to change the race abilities with an editor to play in single...could you tell us what races did you pick for single? Just curious.
Motivation is, possibility to change is exhausted for the moment.

Depesz
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Postby Depesz » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:36 pm

Hello,
I learned about moo2 on some polish strategy forums when i was searching for a good 4x game and I saw a LP on youtube by quill18 and like it a lot. Just changed their abilities that they fit to play on single, most of them were repulsive etc(I know those layouts were for multiplayer and were good builds). I changed them by a) the orginal moo2 races with the new ability cost b) the way they look ;D. For example made Darlocs Spying +20, Telepathic, 1+ BC, Stealthy Ships, Dictatorship , Lucky, Fantastic Traders, Rich Home World, Defense +50 and UNCREATIVE. And believe it or not, but they tend to do best of all races ; D

Digitalnamshub
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Postby Digitalnamshub » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:25 pm

I all ready had MOO2 working in fullscreen mode with dosbox. However adding your mod causes an error that says "Fullscreen mode is not supported."

Any ideas?
The keenest sorrow is the realization we are the sole cause of all of our own adversities. - Sophocles

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:32 am

what about regular moo, does it show the same message?


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