Lets reason. The subfarms used to give 4, now 6 food. If you consider an ordinary food race, that's about 1 or 1.5 farmers equivalent. Now clones give 100k pop growth. Consequently it needs 10 turns to produce 1 pop, or 15 turns to produce 1.5 pop. While subfarms give immediate boost, clones in longer run are better. But if you consider a -food race the equivalent number farmers will be 2, or futher if you take cybernetic, equivalent number of farmers will be 3 or more if it is cybernetic with - food. Hence the time when the clones only mat?h subfarms will be 20 or 30 turns! Quite a good boost for subfarms, isn't it?I suppose, but -food race seems very hard to pull of in the early stage. And I tend to use cloners even with 100% growth bonus (maybe a mistake?). But it is just too good.
"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc
Last edited by Overlord2 on Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi, I am a big fan of your mod, despite playing single player. I want to give opinions about elements that might be unbalance while trying my best to think of them in a multiplayer setting.
1) Auto-fire settings seem overpowered in terms of it being only a 50% space increase. In contrast, continuous seems pointless to me when we have battle scanner. Having a 25% attack bonus is not worth it for sacrificing 1/3 of your weaponry.
2) Given disruptor's insane power, I find death rays rather weak in comparison, especially when you have...
3) Particle beams. Is there anything besides hard shields that can stop them?? It seems like one can just check his/her opponent's research tech, notice not picking hard shields and then research that brutal weapon, unless there's another way of stopping it besides hard shields.
4)I'd suggest reducing neutronium bomb's space from 7 to 6.
5) Why does lithovore require so many picks? I would never choose it.
1) Auto-fire settings seem overpowered in terms of it being only a 50% space increase. In contrast, continuous seems pointless to me when we have battle scanner. Having a 25% attack bonus is not worth it for sacrificing 1/3 of your weaponry.
2) Given disruptor's insane power, I find death rays rather weak in comparison, especially when you have...
3) Particle beams. Is there anything besides hard shields that can stop them?? It seems like one can just check his/her opponent's research tech, notice not picking hard shields and then research that brutal weapon, unless there's another way of stopping it besides hard shields.
4)I'd suggest reducing neutronium bomb's space from 7 to 6.
5) Why does lithovore require so many picks? I would never choose it.
Hi, I am a big fan of your mod, despite playing single player. I want to give opinions about elements that might be unbalance while trying my best to think of them in a multiplayer setting.
1) Auto-fire settings seem overpowered in terms of it being only a 50% space increase. In contrast, continuous seems pointless to me when we have battle scanner. Having a 25% attack bonus is not worth it for sacrificing 1/3 of your weaponry.
2) Given disruptor's insane power, I find death rays rather weak in comparison, especially when you have...
3) Particle beams. Is there anything besides hard shields that can stop them?? It seems like one can just check his/her opponent's research tech, notice not picking hard shields and then research that brutal weapon, unless there's another way of stopping it besides hard shields.
4)I'd suggest reducing neutronium bomb's space from 7 to 6.
5) Why does lithovore require so many picks? I would never choose it.
1) Auto-fire settings seem overpowered in terms of it being only a 50% space increase. In contrast, continuous seems pointless to me when we have battle scanner. Having a 25% attack bonus is not worth it for sacrificing 1/3 of your weaponry.
2) Given disruptor's insane power, I find death rays rather weak in comparison, especially when you have...
3) Particle beams. Is there anything besides hard shields that can stop them?? It seems like one can just check his/her opponent's research tech, notice not picking hard shields and then research that brutal weapon, unless there's another way of stopping it besides hard shields.
4)I'd suggest reducing neutronium bomb's space from 7 to 6.
5) Why does lithovore require so many picks? I would never choose it.
Thanks for the feedback. Here are answers to your questions:Hi, I am a big fan of your mod, despite playing single player. I want to give opinions about elements that might be unbalance while trying my best to think of them in a multiplayer setting.
1) Auto-fire settings seem overpowered in terms of it being only a 50% space increase. In contrast, continuous seems pointless to me when we have battle scanner. Having a 25% attack bonus is not worth it for sacrificing 1/3 of your weaponry.
2) Given disruptor's insane power, I find death rays rather weak in comparison, especially when you have...
3) Particle beams. Is there anything besides hard shields that can stop them?? It seems like one can just check his/her opponent's research tech, notice not picking hard shields and then research that brutal weapon, unless there's another way of stopping it besides hard shields.
4)I'd suggest reducing neutronium bomb's space from 7 to 6.
5) Why does lithovore require so many picks? I would never choose it.
1) Autofire mod reduces beam attack by -20, while continuous increases it by 25. Beams without continuous tend to do less damage. Check it vs ships, which have stabilizers(nullifiers) and augmented engines. No hit/no damage though you have the autofire...
2) Death ray is good for starbases/ground batteries due to higher damage. Besides death ray kills marines, so you can create nasty tactical combos with transporters or shuttles. Only damper field saves you from crew killing weapons.
3) Very high beam defense or damper field with energy absorber can counter particle beam if you miss hard shields. Reflection field works too.
4) Accepted.
5) With lith you can construct couple of the strongest races in VDC: dict sub lith +100 pop growth or dict sub lith +70 pop growth rich hw. Decreasing cost of lith further may help arising even more powerful races.
1) Ok, continuous appears to be a viable choice when ships avoid your beams.
2) It makes sense. Death Rays would be the best weapon when one is trying to capture ships without damaging them too much. Against players with planetary barrier shield, high dmg beam weapons can substitute for planet-only neutronium bombs.
4) The reason for my neutronium bomb suggestion is due to powerful beam weaponry substituting for bombs later in the game. Small fast ships with those bombs would be a powerful alternative against planetary defenses. Why the suggestion does not increase bomb damage is to keep bomber bays balanced. Also, Disruptor Cannon and also Sensors are very good technologies.
5) I didn't know lithovore could be so important to expert gamers. Generally I would pick +2 farming or cybernetic instead but I may be underestimating lithovore.
2) It makes sense. Death Rays would be the best weapon when one is trying to capture ships without damaging them too much. Against players with planetary barrier shield, high dmg beam weapons can substitute for planet-only neutronium bombs.
4) The reason for my neutronium bomb suggestion is due to powerful beam weaponry substituting for bombs later in the game. Small fast ships with those bombs would be a powerful alternative against planetary defenses. Why the suggestion does not increase bomb damage is to keep bomber bays balanced. Also, Disruptor Cannon and also Sensors are very good technologies.
5) I didn't know lithovore could be so important to expert gamers. Generally I would pick +2 farming or cybernetic instead but I may be underestimating lithovore.
Right, thats why I keep bombs damage at 110. Also I plan to enhance sensors to enable it to decloak stealth ships. I cannot do it right now because of lack of the knowledge, but I have reliable information it will be possible in future, sooner or later.4) The reason for my neutronium bomb suggestion is due to powerful beam weaponry substituting for bombs later in the game. Small fast ships with those bombs would be a powerful alternative against planetary defenses. Why the suggestion does not increase bomb damage is to keep bomber bays balanced. Also, Disruptor Cannon and also Sensors are very good technologies.
If you take +2 farming or cybernetic, you still need 15-25% of citizens sustaining the whole population with food. That's about 2-3 farmers in the beginning, which results in less effective pop. Futhermore, you need freighters to send food to new colonies, which consumes significant amount of BC. And the requirement of building a lot of freighters in the beginning slows down expansion and research considerably. Of course you can pick lots of useful skills at the cost of lith to compensate rate of expansion, but research is still slower. In result sub lith pop is one of the fastest tech race in the game.5) I didn't know lithovore could be so important to expert gamers. Generally I would pick +2 farming or cybernetic instead but I may be underestimating lithovore.
Yes Overlord2 is correct. i was skeptical about sub lith race myself at start. Then I played a few games with them, and quickly realized their potential. They hit all benchmarks rather quickly.
Of course there are other ways of feeding your pop, and the whole point of the mod is to keep more than one option viable.
Of course there are other ways of feeding your pop, and the whole point of the mod is to keep more than one option viable.
Thanks for appreciation.Just wanted to say I really enjoy this mod, and I appreciate the ongoing support for it.
I do have a question concerning exchanging techs.
In the hotseat games i've played using this mod it seems to be disabled for player to exchange with one another, even if they are not replusive.
Afaik it is disabled if you possess all the teches your opponent possesses.
Q: you talk about hotseat games between humans?
I think I've found a bug in VDC34.
Universal Antidote's tech description claims it increases pop growth by 60%. But it actually only increases it by 30%. The increase in pop growth I am seeing is identical for getting for Microbiotics, which should be 30%. Tested this a decent amount and I am pretty sure its only giving 30% instead of 60.
Thanks for the great mod and the frequent support.
Universal Antidote's tech description claims it increases pop growth by 60%. But it actually only increases it by 30%. The increase in pop growth I am seeing is identical for getting for Microbiotics, which should be 30%. Tested this a decent amount and I am pretty sure its only giving 30% instead of 60.
Thanks for the great mod and the frequent support.
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