"Very Difficult Choice" Mod, irc channel: irc.quakenet.org/vdc

[Overlord2]

-1 research could be taken by telepathic blitz races for instance. Anyway +0.5 reseach isn't possible.

[Astax]

-1 research could be taken by telepathic blitz races for instance.

I suppose, but would it be a better choice than feudal?

Anyway +0.5 reseach isn't possible.

That sucks :/

What is possible? Can we make Lucky into something that gives +10% morale for example?

[Overlord2]

-1 research could be taken by telepathic blitz races for instance.

I suppose, but would it be a better choice than feudal?

Difficult to tell, feudal's positive value is very attractive, though science penalty of the feudal is sharper.

What is possible? Can we make Lucky into something that gives +10% morale for example?

That will require reprogramming or inserting of one's own code. Unfortunately it's beyond my capabilities (at least in near future).

[Astax]

No sweat man, just bouncing ideas off you and seeing what will stick!

[StepNRazor]

Irakly I really like the vdc mod.
But I really do not have time to learn a new game every two or three weeks, I don't really.
I miss playing the game, but I don't have enough free time to keep learning new moo.

[Overlord2]

Irakly I really like the vdc mod.
But I really do not have time to learn a new game every two or three weeks, I don't really.
I miss playing the game, but I don't have enough free time to keep learning new moo.

What can I say. The core of VDC keeps mostly the same. The changes are more of a balance. If you have learned the VDC once, you are in for any subsequent changes.

[Masterblaster]

I seem to have done something wrong installing this because all the default races have their picks at about -20 and since I can't get more minus picks than 10 it's impossible to pick feudal for example. Could someone help me with this problem?

Also isn't fantastic traders costing just one pick a bit overpowered especially when coupled with production bonuses? Who would pick the increased money options when you can just take production bonuses and fantastic traders?

[cosmophobia]

Hello,

nice to see there is a mod, which is still developed.

I just played a game with Silicoids vs. Computer and want to share my thoughts.
Where is the "dificult choice"!? There are so mutch singletons, that it's not very "dificult". Where is the fun when everybody gets stellar converter and such things!?
By the way stellar converter seems mutch to strong to me.
To make missiles and torpedoes more attractive I think Dauntless guidance system should be singleton.

Bug: After researching Evolutionary Mutation I wanted to choose Warlord, but I can't. The game says, that I can't get lower than -10 Picks.

[Overlord2]

I seem to have done something wrong installing this because all the default races have their picks at about -20 and since I can't get more minus picks than 10 it's impossible to pick feudal for example. Could someone help me with this problem?

Hi. Seems like you're missing racestuf.lbx from the archive. Reinstall the VDC mod overwriting all files. This should work.

Also isn't fantastic traders costing just one pick a bit overpowered especially when coupled with production bonuses? Who would pick the increased money options when you can just take production bonuses and fantastic traders?

When you trade goods, you convert production into cash, and you spend quite a lot of production, which could be used for building military ships for example. Lets say if you spend 330 prod on trading good, you lose 1/4 of BBs cost. But when you buy out the items you spend 2x of the left cost. Therefore the maths is in favour of production, not trading goods. Trading goods is a good addition, but not important skill as long as trading treaties are not concerned. But as pointed before, I created this mod with a view to MP, balancing singleplayer wasn't my priority.

Hello,
nice to see there is a mod, which is still developed.
I just played a game with Silicoids vs. Computer and want to share my thoughts.
Where is the "dificult choice"!? There are so mutch singletons, that it's not very "dificult". Where is the fun when everybody gets stellar converter and such things!?

The main economic techs were split off into singletons on purpose. The fudamental idea of that is in MP games (where no trading is allowed) the main economic techs are chosen in 99.9% cases. Placing other techs in the same tech fields eliminates those techs from the game or makes a free addition to creative race. Hence for allowing more choices those techs were put in different tech fields.
As for stellar converter, it used to be in different place for long time, but was split off into singleton for several reasons,
First reason is that an uncreative race can't possibly win the game if it doesn't get a weapon, which can go through Barrier Shield. If you look at regular moo, this situation is still there. The second reason is that in late game non-creative race when playing against creative race gets under very big disadvantage when it misses stargate, whereas stellar is practcally a must have. Creative can easily out-manuevre non creative race by means of the stargate - attack enemy and return before non-creative race can hit the creative. To prevent this, stellar was split off in singleton. Anyway, stellar converter is so costly hardly 1 game out of 100 reaches such a late stage.

By the way stellar converter seems mutch to strong to me.

Consider damper field supplemented by energy absorber. When damage of the stellar was only 600, it couldn't kill a destroyer

To make missiles and torpedoes more attractive I think Dauntless guidance system should be singleton.

Dauntless guidance ins't necessary with missiles at all. Though Unification can easily take it. Creative gets it too.

Bug: After researching Evolutionary Mutation I wanted to choose Warlord, but I can't. The game says, that I can't get lower than -10 Picks.

Silicoid uses more picks in the beginning, hence it takes more negatives, but it prevents from taking mutation. Ok, I guess I will have to re-arange the stock races.

[cosmophobia]

Silicoid uses more picks in the beginning, hence it takes more negatives, but it prevents from taking mutation.

Evolutionary Mutation gave me 5 Picks.
I had the coice between +2 Research / +2 Spy / Warlord.
I was able to choose +2 Research or +2 Spy but not Warlord.

[Overlord2]

Very odd indeed. It shouldn't have let you choose anything at all. I can't explain this behaviour. Anyway, shall I completely change the Silicoid race? Other races seem to be OK.

[Overlord2]

Evolutionary Mutation gave me 5 Picks.
I had the coice between +1 Research / +2 Spy / Warlord.
I was able to choose +1 Research or +2 Spy but not Warlord.

I changed the race picks in v32. now you can take +35 defense in addition to those two picks pointed above. Warlord can't be taken for some reason.

Alternatively you can use the multiplayer race set:
http://rapidshare.com/files/429196758/RACESTUF.LBX

[Astax]

I like the +1 food change, but is +2 food even viable? Seems like a lot of food. If you need that much + food you might as well go uni.
I'm not sure if +1.5 food would even be viable, maybe +.5 food would be a nice option :/

I like the sub farms change, but I still feel it's not a good choice over cloners. Seems to me that on Large cloners is always way to go.

Just a reflection: we were talking about tech trading in 2v2, and I think it makes uncreative very viable for one team member.

[Overlord2]

I like the +1 food change, but is +2 food even viable? Seems like a lot of food. If you need that much + food you might as well go uni.
I'm not sure if +1.5 food would even be viable, maybe +.5 food would be a nice option :/

+2 Food is a viable pick for both dict prod and tech race. Both of the races have potentially higher research than uni race. But uni has higher potential of attacking early, since it gets its bonuses immediately.
Besides fractional bonuses are not available for me.

I like the sub farms change, but I still feel it's not a good choice over cloners. Seems to me that on Large cloners is always way to go.

Farms could be used well with -food +100 pop growth race, or cybernetic.

Just a reflection: we were talking about tech trading in 2v2, and I think it makes uncreative very viable for one team member.

Hehe, difficult to tell. What if you get positronic computer? when opponents get VRN? I would still avoid uncreative cause there are many cases when you may need 2 fixed techs out of 3 or 4.

[Astax]

+2 Food is a viable pick for both dict prod and tech race.

I'd like to see this race in action, because I would think going +1 food and Aquatic would be better in both cases. Of course I could be wrong. Maybe +1 Food and Aquatic is more picks, but Aquatic also has benefit of max pop bonus on lot of planets.

+Farms could be used well with -food +100 pop growth race, or cybernetic.

I suppose, but -food race seems very hard to pull of in the early stage. And I tend to use cloners even with 100% growth bonus (maybe a mistake?). But it is just too good. Only time I'd see you not wanting is if you would potentially run out of places to put your pop. In such a case it would be a race that lacks every last pop bonus trait. And I don't know what race would be viable if it didn't have Aqua, sub or tol, unless it was a blitz race or creative. In case of creative it would get both techs anyway.

For me good balance for cloners would be either a pop growth tech that would be equivalent in bonus. And in such a case it would have to be balanced so that 1)For certain races or situations one was better than the other but not in all cases 2)Cloners would get a bonus due to construction cost or it would have construction cost reduced so both techs would be close.

Or an alternative would be to put it with a robotic factory, and reduce cost of robotic factory and maybe increase output. That way it would be preferred tech for housing situations/races.

Hehe, difficult to tell. What if you get positronic computer? when opponents get VRN? I would still avoid uncreative cause there are many cases when you may need 2 fixed techs out of 3 or 4.

If u got Positronics you would probably have to attack early Or in case of UNI race it wouldn't be the worst tradeoff.

I kicked around this idea in IRC last night: Limited tech trading for 2v2 setting, you can only trade a tech for another tech in the same field. This would stop situations where one race techs and the other just builds. And it would be sort of a middle ground between creative and non creative, since you would get about 2 techs per field. And both races would need to tech still.