Maps through savegame in MP

Information, How-to's, and discussion about mod'ing Master of Orion II.
c'g~
Posts:80
Joined:Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:26 pm
Location:Ukraine
Maps through savegame in MP

Postby c'g~ » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:30 pm

Hi, Everyone. Excuse me for my English (I’m from Ukrain, so…)
I’m new on this forum (but I read it enough recently), generally I didn’t play MoO very long. But I like RTS and step-by-step strategy games and played them over all my gaming “life”. Moreover, I like to change something, that cripples the balance in games, which I’m playing (for example I created bunch of scripted maps for Star Craft and Heroes and have my own card & dice game).

So, to the point, I think, that in MoO2, balance strongly affected by the Galaxy Map, which generates practically random at start of the each game. Why I think so? It’s cos I have some very lucky/unlucky start saves and one of them is HW +colony at large gaia and 2 splinter colonies on TURN 4!!!

So, I have a question: Is Maps, created in save game editor, played in MP games? Or MPlayers prefer to not bother with this and play just random map?

I created some Maps through save game editor, tested them with my friends and reach the conclusion: It’s more fair and balanced play, not just blind luck – everyone can predict what opponent can do and counter it adequately (of cos, it’s required some skill). Moreover, it’s not hurting to gameplay at all – U can risk or play safe, expand or blitz, tech or prod – everything U want.

I think map playing will advance the game style of MoO2 to the next level.

Listening to Ur replies

c'g~
Posts:80
Joined:Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:26 pm
Location:Ukraine

Postby c'g~ » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:11 am

I have another argument for creating Maps for MoO2. Can U imagine that some grand RTS, like Star Craft or War Craft, would be playing with random Map each time (especially on some tournaments)? I think not. It’s just killing dynamics and thrill – players CAN NOT use potential of the game fully, thus some part of the game is losing every time. Just think about full depth of MoO2, that U can press out of it. Besides, don’t U tired already of playing random each time? I’m not against random Map playing, but I think that MoO2 need some fresh and more advanced playing style

Moreover, created Maps somehow will close the gap between Veterans and New players, cos if everyone will start to learn something new simultaneously (I mean created Map or Mod playing), than everyone will be in the same position practically. But of course, if Veteran players to lazy or don’t want to learn something new or fear, that some New players tear them apart because of new game style (like it was with Counter Strike 1.6 and Counter Strike Source), then nothing will change and Game will die certainly (again look what happening with CS now)

And I think, it’s not a problem to play with game saved Maps, all U need just trustworthy save loader, whom will not cheat. Or I don’t know about other problems, connected with save games?

Another great idea with game saved maps, that U can reach 100% balance (Yes, I said 100%). How can U do this? It’s simple. Create symmetric Map (through save game editor) for 2 or 4 or etc. players. Then all players just play with 0 Race pick abilities. That’s all – U HAVE the 100% balance game. Can anyone object this?

And one more thing, many of hardcore players, that I know, doesn’t want to play MoO just cos of it’s randomized Galaxy Map.

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Zieman
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Location:Finland

Postby Zieman » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:54 am

I beg to differ.
I think map playing will advance the game style of MoO2 to the next level.
MoO2 need some fresh and more advanced playing style
IMHO the situation is just opposite - playing a couple of pre-generated maps over and over again would be really boring. Having random maps makes the game harder and in a way 'new' every time, maybe created "standard maps" would help beginners grasp the fundamentals of the game a bit easier, but random maps put your skills to test. Remember, you may end up with better, worse or about equal corner of galaxty than your opponent(s). With some luck, the "better" player will have a hard time against an inexperienced one, just because of map imbalance, which in this case can be a good thing.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S
Of course if you could create & distribute maps, or galaxies, at will, you could end up with lots of different & more or less balanced startpoints. That sounds ok. I would keep random starmap generation as an option in any case.
No skill, no knowledge - but lots of LUCK!!!

c'g~
Posts:80
Joined:Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:26 pm
Location:Ukraine

Postby c'g~ » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:23 pm

Hi, Zeiman. I’m glad that U interested. U said:
playing a couple of pre-generated maps over and over again would be really boring
I can agree with U, that at some point playing the same pre-generated maps can become boring, but in this case U can create a new pack of them.
But beside this, did U try to play on the same pre-generated map a couple of times with different opponents? I did. And U knows what? Within 4 games none of them was the same – MoO2 have just huge potential and pre-generated maps can’t reduce it even a bit (and what about, for example, Star or War Craft – players of which just playing the same bunch of maps over and over again). Just try it.
random maps put your skills to test
Yes, U are right. But except random maps (that have so much misbalance), why everyone don’t want to test they skills through different way, why everyone just pick UniTol or UniAquaProd, or research ALabs first? It’s because Multi Player games played mostly for Victory and only then for fun. If U want to test Ur skills – just pick Dictatorship or Feudal.
With some luck, the "better" player will have a hard time against an inexperienced one, just because of map imbalance
I think it’s NOT good situation for both of them, cos Veteran can lose, and Newbie will think that in MoO2 Luck deciding everything. And what about reverse situation – if a New player would be stomped by Veteran, not only because of skill, but also because of random map? Will that New player play ever again? I think not – blow will be too hard for most of Newbies.
And in general if any player lost because of imbalance of random map – is this alright???
Of course if you could create & distribute maps, or galaxies, at will, you could end up with lots of different & more or less balanced startpoints
Till now all Maps, that I created, were symmetric – so startpoints balance is pure 100%. And about “create & distribute” – I don’t think, that this will be fun, if I alone will create maps – this work need more than one head for really good and interesting Galaxies

But thank U very much for Ur concern

c'g~
Posts:80
Joined:Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:26 pm
Location:Ukraine

Postby c'g~ » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:33 am

Hello, c’g~ here.
Just some remarks about what I said earlier.
I think that MoO2 need some fresh and more advanced playing style
I mean, that with Map construction one can create many game situations, that just CAN NOT occur in randomized Map playing. Moreover, it can be done just with starting conditions of the pre-generated Map, without any schematizing (I mean without any pre-created scenario), thus it IS NOT conflict with common rules of the MP Game.
For example, I can create Map, on which players will be battling with Frigates and Destroyers starting from turn 5! I can create Map, in which Death Spores and Bio Terminators will be in use. And like I said earlier, with pre-generated Map U can play the pure 100% balanced Game and more interesting and fresh situations.
And that’s what I mean “Fresh and New game playing style”

Have some thoughts ‘bout this? Reply! :)


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