ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

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Rocco
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ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Sun May 31, 2015 1:39 pm

EDIT: this thread start has been updated multiple times.

Summary:
Cybernetic repair rate In vanilla moo2 is advertised as 10% of armor and structure and 5% of internal systems.
The 5% is only accurate for Star Bases. For ships the repair rate of internal systems is lower than 5%.
The cause is that only half of the hit points of a ships drive is taken into account for repair calculation.
Thus, the effective repair rate is dependent on a ships configuration:
An empy BB with no shield gets a 3.3% repair rate.
BB's with a shield and/or weapons & specials have a higher effective repair rate, up to 4.3%.
Reason is that the relative influence of the drive declines.
The same applies for the Automated Repair Unit, only the percentages are doubled.

Repair rate of armor & structure:
CMBTFIR2: Repair_Combat_Ship_
Offset: Data Size Value
000BB029 (dos)
000BB069 (140): 64 00 00 00 DWORD 100 ; Armor & Structure Repair = X/100

Repair rate of internal systems work as quoted in the OCL thread:
Total hit points repaired is 5% of:
1. Half of hit points of the drive
2. HP of beam computer
3. HP of shield generator
4. HP of weapons (hp are 10% of space)
5. HP of specials (hp are 10% of space)

When the ship has no computer by design, computer hit points are still used in the calculation!
When the ship has no shield, shield hit points are not used.

The repair value is rounded down and then used for repairs.
Order of repair is: Drive, Computer, Weapons & Specials, Shield.

For cybernetics, Star Bases do get the correct 5% repair rate, but for ships the repair rate is dependent on its configuration. An empy BB with no shield would get a 3.3% repair rate. For BB's with a shield and/or weapons & specials, the effective repair rate is higher because the relative influence of the drive declines. (Up to 4.2% in classic MOO2, not taking R. Hull, Battle Pods & Megafluxers into account)

A damaged drive leads to partial loss of movement or even immobilization.
A destroyed drive will cause the ship to explode.
A destroyed computer will be repaired.

Weapons & Specials that are destroyed are not repaired and are lost during combat while damaged ones do get repaired.
A shield that gets destroyed, will get repairs (hit points go up) and the repaired shield is able to block damage according to its class, however it is no longer able to absorb damage. (In essence, it works the same in this case as a planetary shield)

Values of star base internals as can be seen in combat in the pop-up info screen, are the values of its respective class SHIP and not the values from the Star Base line in OCL. Thus, by default the star base has computer & shield values of a cruiser. In OCL_Improved, shield and computer values can also be set at the star base line, but that is not what you see on screen in combat. (more detail: OCL codes correctly, it is just that the offsets for bases are not used / overrided by 'Star Base Size Class' offsets)

The pop-up info screen and the info on the bottom of the combat screen do not always display the same info on number of weapons active, when Ion Pulse Cannon has destroyed some. The pop-up info screen is only updated the next turn on this aspect. In case you destroy an opponents' weapon, that weapon will be present and "quasi-functioning" for the current turn: Beam weapons would draw animation, and would look like a miss, missiles would be launched, but would have a "0 missiles" in the stack info, and would also do no damage when hitting their target.

Some weird twist also in repair after combat has finished, contradicting the battle repair in some parts. Weapons arent repaired still, the same as during a battle, but specials, shields, drive and computer are, and regain the full capabilities (Armor & Structure are restored fully too).



-----
Below are results of the first round of testing which initiated this thread; second round and discussion in posts below added to this later.

Cyber & ships
Effective repair rate with default 200 denominator is indeed 3.3% when ship has no shield and not counting weapons or specials present. When making the calculation with 1/2 drive value, repair rate is 5.076%.
When ship has a shield, i has a 3.866% effective repair rate, not counting weapons & specials present. And this is 5.043% when calculating 1/2 drive value.

ATU & ships
Effective repair rate with default 200 denominator is 6.7% when ship has no shield and not counting weapons or specials present. When making the calculation with 1/2 drive value, repair rate is 10.308%.

Cyber & star base
Effective repair rate 6% when base has no shield and not counting weapons or specials present.
I had computer value set at 150pt value and the base got 9pts repair per turn.
When base has a shield, i get a 5.25% effective repair rate, not counting weapons & specials present. I had shield value at 250, which caused 21pts/turn damage repair.

ATU & star base
Effective repair rate 12% when base has no shield and not counting weapons or specials present.
I had computer value set at 150pt value and the base got 18pts repair per turn.
When base has a shield, i get a 10.75% effective repair rate, not counting weapons & specials present. I had shield value at 250, which caused 43pts/turn damage repair.

missing points
For Star Base, if i add 30pts to total value of computer and shield (30+150+250) or just to compu when no shield present, all calc's result in exactly 5% or 10%. (assuming the 21pt repair is in fact 21.5, explaining the 43pt ATU repair)

>So is these 30pts the value for weapons & systems in a base?
Using this as input for the ships, it suggests 30 is too high and it should be more ~25.
Depending on how rounding works exactly.
>So is there just 1 fixed value added for weapons & specials, how much is it and which offset determines it?
Last edited by Rocco on Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:34 am, edited 31 times in total.

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Darza
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Re: ATU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Darza » Sun May 31, 2015 3:59 pm

Rocco wrote:
Weapons & specials that are damaged are not repaired and are lost during combat.
When shield hp reaches 0 and the generator is lost, the hit points get repaired but shield no longer functions.

Info display
The pop-up screen and the info on the bottom of the combat screen do not always display the same info on number of weapons active, when Ion Pulse Cannon has destroyed some.


Not a perfect wording, at least. Repaired shields are stopping to get the "shield HP", and honestly inform about it in info - "0 damage blocked". But they retain their shield class damage prevention still after repair, just they are starting to work as planetary shields does - only damage prevention by a shield class, nothing more.

The pop up infos arent updated till the next turn on this part. In case youll destroy a weapon - for a opponent - that weapon would be present and functioning in a info for this turn, without possibility to know about it was actually destroyed. Beam weapons would draw animation, and would look as a miss, missiles would be launched, but would have a "0 missiles" in a stack info, and would also do no damage when would hit their target.

Some weird twist also in repair after damage, contradicting the battle repair in some parts. Weapons arent repaired still, the same as during a battle, but specials and shield does, regaining the full capabilities (Armor&Structure HP's and Drive&Comp HP's are restored fully too, of course).

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Rocco
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Re: ATU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:39 am

Yes, thanks for this clarification! I have seen the 0 missiles, but did not know it works the same way for the beams. For shields, I have updated text above. Also added more tests for star bases.

Unclear for me atm is how weapons & specials are taken into account for the damage repair calc. Is it a 'fixed value per weapon' or '1 fixed value for all weapons'? And what is that value. Tried to make assumptions.

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Overlord2
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Re: ATU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Overlord2 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:39 am

Few clarifications: destroyed weapons and specials are not repaired, while damaged ones are. Btw, in VDC destroyed computer and shield generator is still repaired. And weapon's hp is equal to 10% of the space it takes. No data for specials.
I will check your test results to confirm.

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Re: ATU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:54 am

Thanks!

Weapons hp = 10% space works for the star base and they are repaired 5% then if Cybernetic.
This input also allows me to check with a new test the influence / value of the specials.

For ship, still not completely solved as still delta between shield and no-shield results.
(was testing in M2v140.exe)

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Darza
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Re: ATU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Darza » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:07 am

Oh my.
The "Some weird twist also in repair after damage, contradicting the battle repair in some parts." should been "Some weird twist also in repair after THE BATTLE, contradicting the DURING THE battle repair in some parts.". Have no idea from where that "after damage" stuff come from the mere start. Decided to clarify it this way, instead of fixing the post, as it would just be missed most likely.
Sorry for confusion.

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Rocco
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Re: ATU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:19 pm

repair after THE BATTLE

ok corrected wording, luckily from the context in your original txt, could understand its meaning.

Now, my turn to say, I might have generated some fuzz with all my calc's but most of my trouble came from the '660/200' as in fact after some more detailed test, the value that i find is a 3.25% repair rate or 650/200. An empty reference BB (with 700hp drive and 300hp comp) got 32pts repair / turn and gave ultimate clue.

Specials are like weapons and hp are 10% of space consumed.

All this also solved my shield delta mystery.

So it seems below summation is indeed how it works, resulting in effective 3.25% repair and bases get the correct 5% repair.

1. Half of hp of the engine
2. HP of beam computer
3. HP of shield generator
4. HP of weapons (10% of space)
5. HP of specials (10% of space)

Sidenote: needed to run that test twice as offcourse empty BB is very hard to hit and needed first with Corion to add techs Molec comp and Battle Scanner and update the opponents ship to do significant damage that is higher than repair rate of 1000hp.

edit june 5: conclusion of 3.25% is incorrect. there is no 1 repair % for ships.
Last edited by Rocco on Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Darza
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Darza » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:51 pm

Not sure i got it, 700hp drive? Its with some help of outside modifying tool?

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Rocco
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:55 pm

Yes, modded with OCL_Improved tool the hit points of internal systems to be very large:
Drive 700
Computer 300
Shield 500

In this way, I could observe more accurately the repair effect.

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Darza
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Darza » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:57 pm

Yes, thanks, got now.
"Order of repair is: Drive, Computer, Weapons & Specials, Shield.
Weapons & specials that are damaged are not repaired and are lost during combat."

Contradiction wording.
But well, thats too spammy to post so short posts, IRC is better for it.

And Tractors all the way, btw.

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Rocco
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:06 pm

no prob- updated wording-
Weapons & specials that are destroyed are not repaired and are lost during combat.
(IR also wrote that damaged w&s do get repairs)

>During testing with damaging a SB that has some space consuming specials, I noticed that some repair points 'disappear' before the shield got repaired. On screen it cannot be seen for how many points the weapons/special are damaged or repaired, but still deduced from this that shield gets repaired last.

and yeah .. tractors are the more efficient weapon for these tests.
for next round :)

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Darza
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Darza » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:10 pm

Sorry, also this one: "When shield hp reaches 0, the hit points get repaired but shield is longer able to absorb damage."

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Rocco
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:49 pm

- ok, fully revised first post.

- if weapons & specials hit points are determined by its space and you have a miniaturization due to a new tech field completed, the weapons/specials of a current ship that not has been refitted, will shrink too and are then more easily destroyed?

- has it been attempted to find location of 1/2 drive in the code or any ideas where it might be?
> I am currently looking at the block "repair combat ship" that also has offsets for armor & structure repair and also at the block of "heal system" that starts at BB9E5 in dos version.

@ Overlord2, to make ARU an achievement, can a clue on how to do that be found maybe in the Galactic Currency Exchange? As it was defined in the buildings list with a build cost & maint fee, but it is an achievement. Maybe it was a last minute change of designers?

@ Darza, here is improved cyber testing:

Image

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Overlord2
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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Overlord2 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:12 am

Rocco wrote:- ok, fully revised first post.

So, I was correct about 3.3% (or 3.25) rate for the ships?

Rocco wrote:- if weapons & specials hit points are determined by its space and you have a miniaturization due to a new tech field completed, the weapons/specials of a current ship that not has been refitted, will shrink too and are then more easily destroyed?

On current ship that hasn't been refitted the vaules are written somewhere I think. For new ships new values will be applied.

Rocco wrote:- has it been attempted to find location of 1/2 drive in the code or any ideas where it might be?

No, no idea either, but worth looking for.

Rocco wrote:> I am currently looking at the block "repair combat ship" that also has offsets for armor & structure repair and also at the block of "heal system" that starts at BB9E5 in dos version.

Can you elaborate on heal system? What did you find?

Rocco wrote:@ Overlord2, to make ARU an achievement, can a clue on how to do that be found maybe in the Galactic Currency Exchange? As it was defined in the buildings list with a build cost & maint fee, but it is an achievement. Maybe it was a last minute change of designers?

Good idea, will look into it.

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Re: ARU and Cyber Repair Rates

Postby Rocco » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:31 am

So, I was correct about 3.3% (or 3.25) rate for the ships?

Yes, for an empty BB without shield.

Have to say, I was so caught up in finding the exact % that I missed the remarkable easy answer, which is 'it depends'. For ships the effective repair rate is dependent on its configuration. An empy BB with no shield would get the 3.3% repair rate. For BB's with a shield and/or weapons & specials, the effective repair rate is higher (up to 4.3%) because the relative influence of the drive declines. Updated thread start once again.

Can you elaborate on heal system? What did you find?

I believe it to be related to repair, but will come back on this one when I have some facts.

edit: added offset for armor & structure repair.


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