DemoDict Mod

Information, How-to's, and discussion about mod'ing Master of Orion II.
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siron
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DemoDict Mod

Postby siron » Fri May 26, 2006 3:27 pm

Finally some update...

this version also mods the map generation:
III. Map Balance
The Orange Mod is quite popular recently and it is even used in the ladder. I have implemented some of its ideas in DDb8, mainly to help techbased races which cannot afford to build outposts at start:
a) Brown Stars are defacto Red Stars now.
b) I have removed all unguarded UltraRich planets. (They are rich or abundant now.)
c) UltraRich planets have now a basic prod of 7 per worker instead of the previous 8.
d) Tiny and small planets are now slightly larger. Basic Gaia size for tiny and small are 5 and 10 in regular moo. In this mod they are 8 and 12.
e) I have slightly increased the climate modifiers besides Terran and Gaia.
The effects of the mods d) and e) are summarized in the following table.

DDb8 MaxPop Values (click it to enlarge):
Further details:
http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2006 ... od-b8.html

donm61873
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Postby donm61873 » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:19 am

Is this based on b22 or b23?

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siron
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Postby siron » Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:59 am

b23

Melonwheels
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Postby Melonwheels » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:21 pm

I think the food bonuses should cost alot less. The marginal benefit of an additional point of food productivity just plunges. For example, if productivity increases from 6 to 7, that means your required farmers go from 1/6 of population to 1/7, a 2.3% advantage.

Perhaps the monetary bonuses could be a bit lower too, but that's really just me. I see prod races as socialists and money/tech races as free market liberals.

EDIT:
Here's a better way of looking at it: quasi-game-theory.

Suppose a population of a hundred divided into farmers and workers, where industrial output is maximized while every person has to eat one unit of food.

At the first stage, productivity is at 1 food unit / 1 person and 1 industrial unit / 1 person. With each subsequent stage, the player chooses where to allocate one point of productivity increase so as to maximize production.

Stage 1: Hunter gatherers
Food: 1/p, 100 farmers req.
Industry: 1/p * 0 workers = 0 production

Stage 2: Agricultural revolution
Food: 2/p, 50 farmers req.
Industry: 1/p * 50 workers = 50 production
(otherwise, 0 production)

Stage 3: Industrial revolution
Food: 2/p, 50 farmers req.
Industry: 2/p * 50 workers = 100 production
(otherwise, 66 production)

Stage 4: 1900s
Food: 2/p, 50 farmers req.
Industry: 3/p * 50 workers = 150 production
(otherwise, 132 production)

Stage 5: WW2
Food: 2/p, 50 farmers req.
Industry: 4/p * 50 workers = 200 production
(otherwise, 198 production)

Stage 6: Mad dash for cities (governments begin subsidizing due to the agricultural lobbies)
Food: 3/p, 33 farmers req.
Industry: 4/p * 67 workers = 268 production
(otherwise, 250 production)

Stage 7: Lean production techniques (where we're at presently)
Food: 3/p, 33 farmers req.
Industry: 5/p * 67 workers = 335 production
(otherwise, 300 production)

At this point I guess MOO2 begins.

Stage 8:
Food 3/p, 33 farmers req.
Industry: 6/p * 67 workers = 402 production
(otherwise, 375 production)

Stage 9:
Food 3/p, 33 farmers req.
Industry: 7/p * 67 workers = 469 production
(otherwise, 450 production)

Stage 10:
Food 3/p, 33 farmers req.
Industry: 8/p * 67 workers = 536 production
(otherwise, 525 production)

Stage 11:
Food 3/p, 33 farmers req.
Industry: 9/p * 67 workers = 603
(otherwise, 600 production)

Stage 12:
Food 4/p, 25 farmers req.
Industry: 9/p *75 workers = 675
(otherwise, 670 production)

At this point, it's fairly MOO2-like, and the 4/p farming will probably remain optimal for a while. As for research, I think it's more complicated, since that is more of a time dependant variable, since it amounts to "how much earlier can player 1 increase his productivity by 3 points per worker". Creative isn't necessarily 200-300% better either, since one technology you may never use, and the other is perhaps 50-75% as good as your original 'easy pick'; it amounts to a more 'immediate' (due to fighter bays and such) democracy research bonus.

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siron
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Postby siron » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:15 am

I think the food bonuses should cost alot less. The marginal benefit of an additional point of food productivity just plunges. For example, if productivity increases from 6 to 7, that means your required farmers go from 1/6 of population to 1/7, a 2.3% advantage.

Perhaps the monetary bonuses could be a bit lower too, but that's really just me. I see prod races as socialists and money/tech races as free market liberals.
I had similar considerations when I decided to evaluate that picks. But to look at the increase from 6 to 7 is IMO inappropriate. What matters is the start. And each race starts with 2 food per farmer on his homeworld if it doesnt invest any picks to improve its food. And when you look at the start and treat the pick separately: Food+1 means an improve from 2 to 3 food at hw. Or:

[(1-1/3)/(1-1/2)]=4/3

So the pick gives you the option to invest +33.33% in research OR prod at the start. +1prod or +1res gives u also option to invest +33.33% more in prod or res when you treat them separately.

So the price of these picks should be somehow in the same area. Personally, I think food+1 (and res+1) might be better 2.75 or even 2.5 picks (because 1prod does also increase housing for example). But since I cant mod it this way right now I decided to choose 3 picks. I had 2 picks in some previous versions and my impression was that the pick is a bit too cheap then.

Melonwheels
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Postby Melonwheels » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:43 am

I see what you mean with the research. Everyone will split their non-farmers into workers and researchers, though very rarely 50/50 with democracy or unification. I agree that the pick is roughly equal to the others during the beginning, but it returns to what i wrote after either soil enrichment (or aquatic, which is most likely more than a point better than farming anyways) and definatly after weather controllers.

I have a very dim idea of the starting game though, since ive never had a turn 60 battleship.

Though really in the end, at the right values of all the racepicks, each player should be picking one as often as the next.

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siron
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Postby siron » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:24 pm

Yes, the value of the aquatic pick seems to be between 4 and 5 points.

I tried to double all negative and positive picks so that I can actually define pick prices of 4.5 etc. But this seems to tricky to mod.

So it is 4 points for technical reasons.

I still think that the start matters most when you evaluate picks. And taking later techs into account or race pick combinations will simply lead to fuzzy results.


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