Research Point Limitation

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martock
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Research Point Limitation

Postby martock » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:06 pm

Would it be possible to increase the cap set for Research Points generated? Currently, it tops off at 32767 and won't increase no matter how many of your citizens are devoted to researching. I know this is the limit no only because it says so, but also because if you pay attention to how long it takes to research future tech (for miniaturization purposes), it never gets any faster than this. Is this a physical limit that can't be exceeded or something that can be changed?

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:51 am

LOL!! You must be a masochist to play to such late level. I saw 6k mebbe once or two in my games (about t 200) and it was a horror to manage with 60 or 70 colonies. I feel no need to change that limit. :)

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:13 am

hmmm
.
.
.
# Typ int
Bereich -32768 bis 32767
Größe (wenn 2 Byte) 2 oder 4 Byte

#
Typ unsigned int
Bereich 0 bis 65535
Größe (wenn 2 Byte) 2 oder 4 Byte
.
.
.
Seems the developers of moo2 had choosen an "int" value for RP ... maybe this is changable ... but I see no need to change this value, like cab said.

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martock
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Postby martock » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:32 pm

Ok, you two don't feel the need to change the value, but I do. Typically, I play LONG games and this limit is just plain annoying, though I'll agree with Cabman that it's a pain in the but to manage 60-70 colonies. I do tend to coloninze EVERYTHING that can be colonized. It only gets worse when I manage to pick up Planet Construction. Then the poop really hits the fan. Just so you know, I have actually played a game where I kept the AI alive just so I could see what happens when you reach 100+ in all tech levels. I discovered, nothing. I did this just to see if I could ever get the modifications for the Particle Beam and Death Ray.

I don't understand the german in here but I gather the min and max limits are the figures -32768 and 32767. Interestingly enough, that figure below 65535 is the 32767 doubled with an extra 1 added in. I would like to see if I could change the figures below to read -65535 and 65534 which follows the pattern shown below.
from Alex|D
# Typ int
Bereich -32768 bis 32767
Größe (wenn 2 Byte) 2 oder 4 Byte

#
Typ unsigned int
Bereich 0 bis 65535
Größe (wenn 2 Byte) 2 oder 4 Byte

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siron
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Postby siron » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:25 pm

Just so you know, I have actually played a game where I kept the AI alive just so I could see what happens when you reach 100+ in all tech levels. I discovered, nothing.
I think I had also one really long game....back in 96. But when you see that nothing happens....u cant tell me you enjoy the thing a 2nd time??? I actually think its a bit pathetic :wink:

I hope that LB adds soon some Uber-Antarans who will attack you each round in the late game....with phased cloaked fleet full of stellar converters. This would be a cure for your kind of players :twisted:

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Cabman
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Postby Cabman » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:32 am

LoL

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:38 am

If the RP value would be "unsigned int" instead of "int", u would have 0 - 65535 RP´s. For what reason they took a value with -RP never saw -10 RP. Maybe they need it for some RP events, which lower ur RP´s.

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martock
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Postby martock » Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:02 am

I think I had also one really long game....back in 96. But when you see that nothing happens....u cant tell me you enjoy the thing a 2nd time??? I actually think its a bit pathetic :wink:

I hope that LB adds soon some Uber-Antarans who will attack you each round in the late game....with phased cloaked fleet full of stellar converters. This would be a cure for your kind of players :twisted:
Nope...I never play that long again. Max I get to is to may Future tech level 10 in each area. Maybe. Most of the time, it ends LONG before that but I usually hit the tech RP limit long before then too. That's due to the fact that I colonize anything that can be colonized, no matter how small and how useless.

As for the Antarans, I too, would like to see LB make them stronger and attack more often. In the last game, I think they attacked maybe a total of 10 times and it was a surprise each time as I had to wait for so long between each attack. I think it may be a bit of a stretch for them to attack each turn, I do think they should attack more often and I think they should attack sooner than turn 100. Phased cloaked fleet equipped with stellar converters? No problem. Since he'll attack a colony, his fleet will decloak first, destroy a star base, a colony and maybe (if my fleet isn't equipped with phase cloaks yet) a few ships. Then I'll pounce and try and capture a few of his. Personally, I wouldn't mind that one bit. I think it would make the game more enjoyable if the Antarans were more powerful than they are now. I'd like to see if LB could take their star base and use that as a model for a doom star class vessel that could attack our systems! :twisted:

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martock
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Postby martock » Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:04 am

If the RP value would be "unsigned int" instead of "int", u would have 0 - 65535 RP´s. For what reason they took a value with -RP never saw -10 RP. Maybe they need it for some RP events, which lower ur RP´s.
Would it be possible to swap the figures then? In other words, take the -32768 bis 32767 and swap it with the 0 bis 65535?

If so, how do I do this as I would like to test this to see if it works? I don't mind messing up my MOO2 load just to test. I can always reinstall after all.

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:12 pm

I think u would need the source code ... but I have no clue if it is changeable now ... LB or Grig de Griz ... know it better, I´ll bet. Maybe one of them can give us some info.

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siron
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Postby siron » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:47 am

Nope...I never play that long again.
Length is relative. Compared to our games your games are still extremely long. In several hundreds MP-Games I reached one time so far the end of the techtree by roundabout turn 200 with 4k RPs per turn.
Phased cloaked fleet equipped with stellar converters? No problem. Since he'll attack a colony, his fleet will decloak first, destroy a star base, a colony and maybe (if my fleet isn't equipped with phase cloaks yet) a few ships. Then I'll pounce and try and capture a few of his.
When I refer to late game I mean roundabout turn 140-150 where 95 percent of the MP games are decided. I doubt that you have sufficient fleet to capture them at this stage. Secondly, when they are really cloaked you won’t see where they attack. You can’t have a defense fleet at all your systems.

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martock
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Postby martock » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:00 pm

Length is relative. Compared to our games your games are still extremely long. In several hundreds MP-Games I reached one time so far the end of the techtree by roundabout turn 200 with 4k RPs per turn.
You're quite right about that but then again, I can't seem to get any MP games going, so right now I can only enjoy SP games. However,

When I refer to late game I mean roundabout turn 140-150 where 95 percent of the MP games are decided. I doubt that you have sufficient fleet to capture them at this stage. Secondly, when they are really cloaked you won’t see where they attack. You can’t have a defense fleet at all your systems.
At that point, I wouldn't but given I play long games, I would eventually have a small defensive fleet at many of my 'important' colonies but I don't usually cover all my systems. Regardless, if the Antarans were using phase-cloaks and stellar converters, I wouldn't sit around forever to attack them anyway. As it is now, they rarely attack and by the time they have decent ships, most people can easily dispatch them.

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siron
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Postby siron » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:32 pm

...I can't seem to get any MP games going, so right now I can only enjoy SP games.
All I wanna say is:
In MP there is already competition and "bunker tactics" wont work.
Against AI you can sit back and click several thousand times turn and you would still win the game. I really doubt that this was intended by the game designers. A mechanism like very angry ants could help that you play a bit more aggressively and that you are actually forced to finish the game before you reach the end of the techtree. Moo designers apparently underestimated that players will find a lot of cheese against their AI. I hope angrier Ants will fix it.


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