Slowing down research

Information, How-to's, and discussion about mod'ing Master of Orion II.
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Februarius
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Slowing down research

Postby Februarius » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:31 am

I want to slow down the game pace by slowing the research. The reason I want to slow it is that most of the time you end up with the same strategy, sitting down and rushing for the high level techs. First I increased RP for all tech x2. But i'm not sure is that enough for my taste. Also i'm not sure is it smart to use the same ponder for increasing all levels of research, and will that ruin the game balance. Obviously the RP between the levels will increase significantly (e.g. power level 1 is 50 RP and force fields level 1 is 250, so the difference is 200 RP. Multiply it with 2 and you got the 400 RP difference. With 3, or 4 it will increase eaven more.) Could someone share ideas on how to do it, maybe someone who tried this before and has some experiance how it effects the gameplay.

PhasorEyes
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Postby PhasorEyes » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:46 pm

Though I can't help you with the modding, I wanted to add my two cents.

I remember (at least I think I do) that in MOO1, the technology trees were so deep and slow that you rarely hit the Hyper Advanced levels. I think this was partially compounded by the fact that construction was a lot quicker, particularly for ships. I liked that aspect of the game and would like to see slow tech in MOO2.

I play single-player games exclusively but I'm looking into branching into fun-based online games with my friends (low competition). In single-player games, slowing down tech would be very cool but in order to not slow down the game terribly or make expansion and production more desirable than research, you might consider a more exponential increase in research costs. This way, the early technologies cost roughly the same amount of RPs but will quickly reach levels where you'll have true "space race" situations where you scramble to get every possible scientist working on EMG or something. The tech slow-down would also make espionage and trading technologies much more important because you can't just say "oh I can just research that in 10 turns anyway".

In the multiplayer games I intend to play, this could be a godsend. Technology would truly become valued and closely guarded (much like in the real world). Of course, MP games are long as is and this could just serve to bring the game grinding to a halt.

Anyhow, best of luck figuring out how to do it. I think it's a cool idea.

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Overlord2
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Re: Slowing down research

Postby Overlord2 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:43 am

I want to slow down the game pace by slowing the research. ...... Could someone share ideas on how to do it, maybe someone who tried this before and has some experiance how it effects the gameplay.
Use OCL2.1 (for 1.31) or OCLPlus (for 1.40) for game editing: http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/2005/01/download.html
As for instructions how to use the tool search for the topics below...or here: ftp://ftp.sff.net/pub/people/zoetrope/M ... /OCL/Docs/

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Februarius
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Postby Februarius » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:30 pm

Thanks guys for yours replys. Overlord I already discovered the OCL :D but thanks for trying to help anyway. As for you PhasorEyes thanks for sharing your insights. I like your idea very much I was thinking of something similar. I tried increasing RP x2 and x3 but I end up hiting next turn like crazy in the begining of the game. With low level of RP's you couldn't do much, but wait for like 25 turns to unlock new building or longer range for your ships. And in later stages of the game it didn't slowed research that much. So your idea looks promising. I agree with you, I always got that feeling 'never mind I will research it in few turns' when playing the game. But think of the situation when you would count down the turns to get new tech that will turn the tide of the galactic war. And then Darlock steals it in front of your nose two turns later :shock: :D In later stages of average vanilla game you would wait like 5 turns or so for new tech, of course if you have developed nicely. I think that something like 20-25 turns in average would be enough, and you would have time to use your new tech. Not wait 5 turns more to get better one. I will put all the techs and theirs RP's on sheet and do little math and some comparisons, and then test it in few games to see what happens. I don't have the time to do it right now, because of the real life constraints, but as soon as I do it I'll post my insights here. Cheers

Astax
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Postby Astax » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:35 am

Let me know how this turns out. I personally would love to know what ur modifications do for the game.

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Februarius
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Postby Februarius » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:07 pm

I havent been on this forum for quite some time... unfortunately real life constraints took me away from MOO 2 for quite some time. But reacently I have more free time and I want to play moo 2 again. So I remembered this forum. It seems that activity is more or less the same. I also remembered this post and again I want to try my slower research theory.
My intention is to have something like in CIV 4. There you can choose lenght of the game (fast, normal, epic, marathon). This feature affects all game (production and research). I can't remember any more can you alter production cost in MOO 2. I will have to search the forum for that info.
Following PhasorEyes sugestion and some my ideas i came to conclusion that it would be the best to raise RP exponentialy. And I think that difference between two techs in one field should be increased, not RPs itselfe. This would asure that numbers dont get wild from the start. I was doing some experiments and I think that aplaying exponent of 1.2 on every difference between two tech would be good.
For examle. If you have tech 1, 2, 3 and 4 with RP 50, 80, 150 and 250. The differences between them are 30, 70 and 100.
If you applay exp of 1.2 you get 60, 165 and 250 (numbers are rounded). So after applying new gap between tech they would cost:
new - old:
50- 50
110- 80
275- 150
525- 250
935- 400
1690- 650
2445- 900
3200- 1150
4330- 1500
6065- 2000
12525- 3500
24500- 6000
30980- 7500

I am realy not sure how will this affect the gameplay. Will it unbalance it and how will affect AI. I will implement the changes and try for my selfe. If anyone has better idea or has some other comment feel free to post. Even if you think this is bad idea :) I am very interested what some of you think.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:45 am

Not sure how the game will react on big numbers. The 7500 tech field will correspond to 30980, which is already high, but there are higher levels. What will correspond to 15,000 RPs then? Also do you take into account hyperadvanced techs research cost cannot be altered?
Buildings cost can be changed via OCL.

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Februarius
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Postby Februarius » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:55 am

I got your point. I will experiment with numbers. Maybe applay smaller exponent so that numbers dont raise that much. I will try to play the game and see what happens. As mentioned before in this posts I always wanted research to be more challenging, and thus new techs more rewarding, especialy later in the game. Not to have next field of tech every five turns making one tech obsolete before you even got time to use it. I think that 20 turns or so (depending on how good you developed) between techs would be more interesting.
I will not mess with production costs right now... I think this will slow down game too much.
When I try few games from different positions I will post some info. It seems that no one tried this before, or didnt post something similar, so way not try :)
As for hayper advances. Is the formula for calculation: base(15000 RP) +10000*(level of hayper advance)? So I can alter the base cost.
ps. I now definitly see that 1.2 is too much... maybe 1.1 or even 1.05 ...

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:12 am

As for hayper advances. Is the formula for calculation: base(15000 RP) +10000*(level of hayper advance)? So I can alter the base cost.
No, you can't change this unless you reprogramm the exe, OCL doesn't handle the Hyperadvanced tech in any way.

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Overlord2
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Postby Overlord2 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:19 am

As for hayper advances. Is the formula for calculation: base(15000 RP) +10000*(level of hayper advance)? So I can alter the base cost.
No, you can't change this unless you reprogramm the exe, OCL doesn't handle the Hyperadvanced tech in any way.
I must say, I was wrong here. You can change the cost of first hyperadvanced tech, and then the subsequent hyperadvanced techs get +10,000 RPs cost. So your ideas on slowing research are most likely feasible. Sorry for confusion.

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Februarius
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Postby Februarius » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:55 am

Nevermind, tnx anyway. I already made changes and I am playing the game right now. As I expected the game is little slower in the begining... but not too slow. I am curious to see what happens later in the game and how will the AI react to this.


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