Sourcecode of MOO2 or other Ways to modify the game?!

Information, How-to's, and discussion about mod'ing Master of Orion II.
ChefKoch
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Sourcecode of MOO2 or other Ways to modify the game?!

Postby ChefKoch » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:20 am

Hello everybody!

I'm playing MOO2 since it came out in 1997 I think. I made a break for a couple of months / years but since this year I'm back.

After playing it thousands of times I'm wondering if it's not possible to make several changes, which go further than just editing the costs of research, production or something like that.
Because I learned programming at an IT company I was thinking about programming a completely new version e.g. with C++ but I'm just one person and in addition I have no real skills with C++ or programming games, so it simply would take much too long to get a (good) result.
So I considered about getting the source code from somewhere... And there is the problem: MicroProse doesn't exists since 2003 anymore and I don't know if the source code is still "alive" and is stored somewhere or if it was deleted with the closing of MicroProse.

So my questions are:
a)
Does anybody knows something about the closing, what happened to MicroProse's emloyees, any contact information to the company which took over MicroProse, the source code...?
b)
If my idea with the source code fails: what other possibilities are available to modify the game? I read here and in other forums something about "debugging, finding the right position in the exe and change there something..." I never did something like that before, how does it works and how are you working on it and with what kind of tools...? I'm just familiar with "normal" object oriented programming with Java and a little with C++.

Many thanks in advance!

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:45 am

After playing it thousands of times I'm wondering if it's not possible to make several changes, which go further than just editing the costs of research, production or something like that.
What would u change if u have the source code ?

What kind of further changes ?

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Lord Brazen
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Re: Sourcecode of MOO2 or other Ways to modify the game?!

Postby Lord Brazen » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:49 pm

So I considered about getting the source code from somewhere... And there is the problem: MicroProse doesn't exists since 2003 anymore and I don't know if the source code is still "alive" and is stored somewhere or if it was deleted with the closing of MicroProse.
Atari now owns the rights to the source code. They have licenced it out to MacSoft for the Mac version of Moo II.

Beyond that, I dont know much.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through." - Confucius.

ChefKoch
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Re: Sourcecode of MOO2 or other Ways to modify the game?!

Postby ChefKoch » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:40 am

So I considered about getting the source code from somewhere... And there is the problem: MicroProse doesn't exists since 2003 anymore and I don't know if the source code is still "alive" and is stored somewhere or if it was deleted with the closing of MicroProse.
Atari now owns the rights to the source code. They have licenced it out to MacSoft for the Mac version of Moo II.

Beyond that, I dont know much.
Yes, I already recognized that yesterday and already contacted the support at Atari for MOO2, it was the only possibility to get in contact with them to ask my question to MOO2. I already have an answer, now I got a phone numer from Atari, where I should call to ask my question.
We will see what happens... :-)

ChefKoch
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Postby ChefKoch » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:47 am

After playing it thousands of times I'm wondering if it's not possible to make several changes, which go further than just editing the costs of research, production or something like that.
What would u change if u have the source code ?

What kind of further changes ?
For all German speaking people in here:
Im Forum von ALEX|D hab ich schon eine Antowrt zu der Frage gegeben, da sie ziemlich ausführlich ist, hier der Link:
http://f2.webmart.de/f.cfm?id=2761825&r ... &t=2651108

And to all the English speakers:
I already gave an answer in another forum but this answer is in German and to long to translate it in a few minutes.
So if here's somebody English speaking only who is interested what I would like to change, let me know and I make a short excerpt as soon as possible...
:)

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:52 am

Thus I would change gladly the following:
1. In Tactical Combat should be possible also equipping Sternenbasen etc., rocket bases and soil batteries, that at present by the PC one takes over. A re-tooling I would adapt to that of the ships, an exact idea have I in addition not yet, but that with the investigation of a new weapon or armoring or the like all planetary defenses on the current conditions are not also direct find I so well. The play makes simpler, but over the beginner status I am already long outside; -)
2. Some leaders have a few values, which I would adapt gladly (might be possible already with Mods...)
3. According to to my opinion some technologies are missing, e.g. between Tritan and Zortriumpanzerung are too large the jump and shield class 2, 4 etc. would be also ne consideration.
4. Democracy should at federation 100% on the values received for money and research (see combination).
5. The antaranischen fleets are a joke! Until times ne frigate arrives there is each player (all the same whether human or PC) so far that it has zero problems. The same is the case with monsters, which attack from time to time Kollonien. Here the relation would have to be considered. It is similar with the Virsubefall of the research establishments. A player with 500 FP per round has probably hardly a problem thereby if uniquely 100 FP are taken off...
6. Improvement antaranische weapons. In any case one should be possible miniaturization, whether possibly still sowas like autofires or is so attached, would be to be considered. But, one must understand a strange technology only times, in order to be able to use it also. And if one understood it, then one should make smaller and/or to improve be able her also.
7. It conquered ships (all the same whether Antaraner or normal opponents) are to be further divided to be able, however a technology cannot be available simply immediately. It would be conceivable that the player in the research menu can investigate a new category "conquered technology". I.e. it would select a ship which can be fully researched, specifies possibly still primary criteria (only armoring, only weapon system A, B..., everything...) and depending upon range of the selection it lasts also longer or more briefly, until the new technology is investigated. Since it is already present in the material condition, it would be somewhat cheaper conceivablly it of the FP ago to make, than over the normal research. Where the antaranischen technologies were arranged here, I still no thought, the whole point 7 is however anyway only times not so importantly fuer'n beginning...
8. If one is cybernetic, I would revise the food announcement going by that one also sees in the main window, if production is missing (at present in each case food minus). In addition in the planet view adjustments make that it is more evident how much production units are needed for the food addition and the appropriate departures also directly with the calculation of the construction costses flow to also let here, this are in the building list opinion not the case, the accurate duration have one only again in the planet or colony opinion.
9. Further special abilities, those to the selection stand and for change of the costs. So e.g. +2 for production, research, food is too expensive. Food can be calmly somewhat more expensive, but the remainder is relatively seen in addition expensive. Because as soon as one has autofactory and the further things, the +2 goes down absolutely. And in see for combination have +2 only on ultra poor planets an advantage, was poor believe I balanced, but productively combination off was in the advantage. And also 6 AND has still food bonus, advantage with infantry barracks (good, also disadvantage can be, if one drives off g on Holosimi etc.... * *) costs
10. In principle I became the number of the fortuitous events or other parameters, e.g. it that a white star has also rather rich planets, again to adjust or at least the possibility is as probable give that everyone can adapt... Fortuitous events e.g. happen find much too rare I.
11 If there is a deadlock in the tactical fight (fleet A only equipped with rockets, but not sufficient, in order to destroy fleet B; Quick B also to weak weapons, the fleet A do not disturb, if fleet A belongs to cybernetic people), should not a possibility be created here that despite a Warpaufloesers a retreat is possible. E.g. of it that there is a new Button, that can consist the computer a combat end of or the like offers and the Angerifer normally withdraws themselves or in such a way. Gave still a few more little things, which do not occur to me directly in such a way, is noticeable to me with the play only again and again. A note still: I did not get a telephone number of Atari in the USA, where I mean inquiry because of the source code to arrange am, the support of MOO2 with Atari could me directly there help...: -)

Translated by google language tool !!!

Here s some other tool to translate words from german to english
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/

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Postby ChefKoch » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:27 am

LOL No comment to this very good translation courtesy of google, but this one is better than none... :lol: :wink:

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ALEX|D
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Postby ALEX|D » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:22 pm

1) Starbasedesign is a good idea, but that is hard to code I guess. If the Starbase would be equiped with modded Beams (AP,AF...) and modded Missiles (mirv, emg ...) it would be a good solution too imho.

2) Changing Leades skills is possible.

3) Changing shield and armor values is possible too.

4) I´m not sure, if it is possible to change tech in that way, federation +100% to money/research.

5) Iirc LB´s works on ants, to increase theyre strength. Some events in moo2 r deadly in begining and a joke in later game. It would be fine if some events were weaker on start, and heavier in later game.

6) Hard to do I ll guess, maybe its easier to increase simply weapons damage of ants weapons

7) That would be more realistic, but also hard to implement in moo2 I guess.

8.) Showing real buildtime etc for cybernetics would be a fine nicetohave. But u can see real values on Colony overview ( that screen when u press "c" on main map ).

9) Changing racepickcosts is possible, with "PickHack v1.0 - LBX file editor for custom race picks costs." http://www.spheriumnorth.com/blog-image ... ckv1.0.zip

10) Increasing random events & changing planetvalues on stars ... is also hard to do ... !

11) Some mooers had the idea, when ~5 turns no damage is done to ships the combat ends, Im unsure how easy it is to do such a thing.

* I ll hope Atari will give u the source code ! It would be VERY interesting to see the code ... :D !

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siron
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Postby siron » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:42 pm

Many of these items were already proposed here. For example:

Designing Starbases

Leaders in herodata.lbx and save game or see his editors in the DL section.

And LB already agreed to improve the Antarans. He looked into this issue already: switch possibility?

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Postby ChefKoch » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:06 am

2) Changing Leades skills is possible.
3) Changing shield and armor values is possible too.
Yes I know, but I don't want to change values only, I would like to add some new techs, leaders, ...
6) ...maybe its easier to increase simply weapons damage of ants weapons
Well, the death beam is quite good but although I would improve it to 100-150 damage in normale mode I think. Or much better, but then the costs and the size also should be increased.
The partical beam definitly needs an update, 30-45 in normal mode would be ok I think...
8.) Showing real buildtime etc for cybernetics would be a fine nicetohave. But u can see real values on Colony overview ( that screen when u press "c" on main map ).
That's right, but this is not very optimal. I look a lot at the planet's view to set an exact production in order not to waste production points, especially at the beginning of a game. I know over production is used for further productions but if I don't have further productions, the workers which are too much are better used as scientists or farmers...
10) Increasing random events & changing planetvalues on stars ... is also hard to do ... !
11) Some mooers had the idea, when ~5 turns no damage is done to ships the combat ends, Im unsure how easy it is to do such a thing.
Well, in my understanding number 10 is just customizing some values, which you have to find in the source code or a customizing table.
And number 11 is just a control structure, which records the received damage of fleet A nd B and if the recorded values are after 5 rounds below some control values, the fight ends.
Both would be possible if I or you or somebody else had the source code.
(Ok, the code also need to be in a common programming language but this should be a minor problem... I hope...)
* I ll hope Atari will give u the source code ! It would be VERY interesting to see the code ... :D !
Not only to see it... 8)

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Postby DJ » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:50 am

Browsing one russian forum, I found interesting information ...
One forum member say :
... after exploring dos executable file, I was found "debug information" in Watcom format. Using 'OpenWatcom' utility I am create @program@ thats determine 'variable/function name' by address (+) and local variables for functions bot not in alfabetical order). Resolving problems with Dos4gw (exchange it to extender D32A) I was load executable to 'IDA disassembler'. So possible to create assembler file, with original function and variables names ... Any who interested may e-mail me, I will send you my @program@ and current 'IDA' project

Unfortunately I am never work with Watcom C, ( and did not have skills to check and continue that research. Anyone interested ?!

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Postby Lord Brazen » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:00 pm

Browsing one russian forum, I found interesting information ...
One forum member say :
... after exploring dos executable file, I was found "debug information" in Watcom format. Using 'OpenWatcom' utility I am create @program@ thats determine 'variable/function name' by address (+) and local variables for functions bot not in alfabetical order). Resolving problems with Dos4gw (exchange it to extender D32A) I was load executable to 'IDA disassembler'. So possible to create assembler file, with original function and variables names ... Any who interested may e-mail me, I will send you my @program@ and current 'IDA' project

Unfortunately I am never work with Watcom C, ( and did not have skills to check and continue that research. Anyone interested ?!
I too have found and extracted the symbol table from the executable however it's encoded in watcom format and not codeview format. I can't find a program to convert it and the debugger I use only supports codeview format...

I can work without it but it would be nice to have :P
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through." - Confucius.

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Postby Vampiloup » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:48 pm

[quote="ALEX|
1. In Tactical Combat should be possible also equipping Sternenbasen etc., rocket bases and soil batteries, that at present by the PC one takes over. A re-tooling I would adapt to that of the ships, an exact idea have I in addition not yet, but that with the investigation of a new weapon or armoring or the like all planetary defenses on the current conditions are not also direct find I so well. The play makes simpler, but over the beginner status I am already long outside; -)
[/quote]

Oh yes ! Yes ! Equiping our orbital and perhaps planetary defenses is a GREAT idea.
For now, starbase, battlestation and starfortress are WITHOUT use against big fleets. And since at the end of game the attacking fleet have godlike speed AND fire in first, we can't use our own fleet for defend else we lost the planet AND the defense fleet :-(


[quote="ALEX|
2. Some leaders have a few values, which I would adapt gladly (might be possible already with Mods...)
[/quote]

Yes. Adding a few values for the littles leader and up the values for the bigs (i think Cassandra is underrated).

[quote="ALEX|
3. According to to my opinion some technologies are missing, e.g. between Tritan and Zortriumpanzerung are too large the jump and shield class 2, 4 etc. would be also ne consideration.
[/quote]

Add new techs is always a good idea. I think it's a good idea for have a "full tech choice" in each level.

I look for new orbital bases, new planetary shield, new shields and armors, advanced armor barrack with 2x rate (big advantage for the poor Bulrathies), etc.

[quote="ALEX|
4. Democracy should at federation 100% on the values received for money and research (see combination).
[/quote]

And don't think "democracy" is a better in money (or even in democracy). Myth, only myth.

[quote="ALEX|
5. The antaranischen fleets are a joke! Until times ne frigate arrives there is each player (all the same whether human or PC) so far that it has zero problems. The same is the case with monsters, which attack from time to time Kollonien. Here the relation would have to be considered. It is similar with the Virsubefall of the research establishments. A player with 500 FP per round has probably hardly a problem thereby if uniquely 100 FP are taken off...
[/quote]

Yes, Antaran need better build ships. A planet is really rarely defeted by an antaran attack...
But beware for monsters : Space Eel is really a threat at the beginning, and can kill the game.

[quote="ALEX|
6. Improvement antaranische weapons. In any case one should be possible miniaturization, whether possibly still sowas like autofires or is so attached, would be to be considered. But, one must understand a strange technology only times, in order to be able to use it also. And if one understood it, then one should make smaller and/or to improve be able her also.
[/quote]

Yep, Antaran are not really a threat. And Antares is very poorly defended.

[quote="ALEX|
7. It conquered ships (all the same whether Antaraner or normal opponents) are to be further divided to be able, however a technology cannot be available simply immediately. It would be conceivable that the player in the research menu can investigate a new category "conquered technology". I.e. it would select a ship which can be fully researched, specifies possibly still primary criteria (only armoring, only weapon system A, B..., everything...) and depending upon range of the selection it lasts also longer or more briefly, until the new technology is investigated. Since it is already present in the material condition, it would be somewhat cheaper conceivablly it of the FP ago to make, than over the normal research. Where the antaranischen technologies were arranged here, I still no thought, the whole point 7 is however anyway only times not so importantly fuer'n beginning...
[/quote]

Good idea.


[quote="ALEX|
8. If one is cybernetic, I would revise the food announcement going by that one also sees in the main window, if production is missing (at present in each case food minus). In addition in the planet view adjustments make that it is more evident how much production units are needed for the food addition and the appropriate departures also directly with the calculation of the construction costses flow to also let here, this are in the building list opinion not the case, the accurate duration have one only again in the planet or colony opinion.
[/quote]

Don't understand. But i think numbers are a good idea : It's painfull to count all this little peoples :-\

[quote="ALEX|
9. Further special abilities, those to the selection stand and for change of the costs. So e.g. +2 for production, research, food is too expensive. Food can be calmly somewhat more expensive, but the remainder is relatively seen in addition expensive. Because as soon as one has autofactory and the further things, the +2 goes down absolutely. And in see for combination have +2 only on ultra poor planets an advantage, was poor believe I balanced, but productively combination off was in the advantage. And also 6 AND has still food bonus, advantage with infantry barracks (good, also disadvantage can be, if one drives off g on Holosimi etc.... * *) costs
[/quote]


Perhaps replace the +2 bonus by a +50% ?


[quote="ALEX|
10. In principle I became the number of the fortuitous events or other parameters, e.g. it that a white star has also rather rich planets, again to adjust or at least the possibility is as probable give that everyone can adapt... Fortuitous events e.g. happen find much too rare I.
[/quote]


I don't understand.


[quote="ALEX|

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siron
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Postby siron » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:21 pm

I received Soulburner's files....send me an e-mail when you are intersted.

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Grig de Griz
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Postby Grig de Griz » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:10 am

Lord Brazen:
I too have found and extracted the symbol table from the executable however it's encoded in watcom format and not codeview format. I can't find a program to convert it and the debugger I use only supports codeview format...
You can publish your MoO2's asm code? Or this your know-how?
Now I creating MoO2's asm code (disassemble) and very much tired it. :evil:


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